02-02-2003 13:43									#1
	What exactly causes Ocean levels to rise? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok, I'm having a little problem here. In the latter part of the game, sometimes I'd just get the Ocean Levels to rise a lot and submerging many of my city (and ruining my improvements) in the game. What exactly causes this anyway? Ecological damage? I built plenty of Centauri Preserves etc.

	02-02-2003 17:14									#2
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Eco damage, with global warming, could be one of the answers. Did the Planetary Council approve the "melt polar caps" proposal? This will rise the ocean levels.

	02-02-2003 17:26									#3
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Also, keep in mind that the ocean doesn't actually rise, as far as the game is concerned. The game translates this by making the ground sink.

So when the ocean rises, the values of solar collectors, etc, will decrease because it's actually sinking.

	02-02-2003 17:32									#4
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Well you might have very few to none eco-damage, but this doesn't always apply to your opponents.

Launching a Solar Shade (Planetary Council) sort of counters this.

	02-02-2003 18:31									#5
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Also remember that those sort of facilities (Centauri Preserves, etc) only count towards reducing eco-damage levels after the first pop.

	02-02-2003 19:04									#6
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Nono Height is measured in Meters above Sea level thats the Cause ;=)

	02-02-2003 19:10									#7
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While that is true, it doesn't make sense Solar Collectors lose their bonus since they're still as close to the sun anyway.

	02-02-2003 22:19									#8
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Had a game a couple weeks ago where I was pushing the ocean rise happening on purpose. Built an army of super formers and trans every thing in sight. when the sea went up the first sixty meters, no problem, raised the shore lines and made another row of boreholes and condensers, then came 300+ meters and rising, more shore rising with more bore boreholes and condensers, another 300+ rise and I was keeping up, then I got the big surprise I hadn't seen before,. A honking 900 meter rise. Renamed my home base Atlantis and quit as a sucessful experiment.

	02-02-2003 23:38									#9
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I just build a mag tube "spine" between all my bases, and keep rising all squares on the spine to max elevation. If necessary, one could extent it a few squares out from each base. All you need is enough formers, which isn't hard when you get clean reactors.

	03-02-2003 02:51									#10
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My fave is using armoured sea formers to sink enemy bases.

Not really relevant to this thread but

	03-02-2003 05:25									#11
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Now, once you get a "sea levels will rise" warning, can you prevent it from happening WITHOUT launching a solar shade?

How about if you build enough Centauri Preserves and stuff? Tree farms?

	03-02-2003 15:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Taz My fave is using armoured sea formers to sink enemy bases. Not really relevant to this thread but

Eh, it's not that effective (at least in MP every good player will build pressure domes in all coastal bases) and horribly expensive.

BTW, do sunken landmarks lose their bonuses? What about nuked ones?

	03-02-2003 16:36									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia Now, once you get a "sea levels will rise" warning, can you prevent it from happening WITHOUT launching a solar shade? How about if you build enough Centauri Preserves and stuff? Tree farms?

I'm pretty sure that it's impossible. Moreover, AFAIK even with solar shades sea level will not remin at constant - in one turn it will rise due to GW, in next it will drop due to shade. So you can lose your borehole in one turn and regain its tile in the next. One can be really pissed off...

	03-02-2003 16:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Jekyll BTW, do sunken landmarks lose their bonuses? What about nuked ones?

I know nothing about nuked landmarks, but sunken ones unfortunately lose any bonuses. It may even be that if you ever change landmark level it loses its bonus... tho I'm not sure about this one...

	03-02-2003 18:31									#15
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The landmark levels can survive about a one level shift up or down.

In addition to this, the Freshwater sea loses its bonus the moment it comes in contact with outer saltwater oceans.

	03-02-2003 19:43									#16
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Yeah. Jungles however lose the bonus at the first attempt or intense terraforming (changing rainfall patterns will dry them up someday)

	03-02-2003 19:53									#17
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I'm pretty sure that raising Fossil Field Ridge only one level up cause it to lose its bonus.

	03-02-2003 21:27									#18
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I used to have some notes on this but I don't know where I put them. What about raising the flats? Don't they lose their bonus?

	03-02-2003 23:23									#19
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As far as I know, _any_ elevation change will disrupt the harvest bonuses from landmarks.

As to the base thread, the combined eco-damage of all operating factions contributes to Global Warming. Also, building tree farms and centauri preserves increases the clean mineral limit only for your faction. In one game I conquered Zak fairly early, and got the idea of building his cities _WAY_ up before giving them back to him. After about 20 turns of rush-building facilities, I returned all his stuff to him, with every facility I could think of: Fusion Labs, 'Jack Factories, Hybrid Forests, you name it. 2 turns after I gave him his empire back, I get the warning telling me sea levels will be rising. I checked my Eco-damage: Zero, for my entire faction. Then I checked Zak's bases, and woudn't you know, he was polluting up a storm with all that stuff I gave him. As far as I can tell, AI factions also never experience fungal pops, but I could be mistaken. Has anyone seen a polluting AI incite worm-rape?

	04-02-2003 00:19									#20
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I haven't seen that certainly. Then again, I never get global warming problems either, since I virtually never run Market and I'm *really* careful about eco-damage (that is, when I'm playing Lal, with the Gaians - my other favorite faction - it's self-explanatory ), so I'm not much of an expert on that.

	06-02-2003 15:40									#21
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In response to the sinking landmarks, I remember in a game where there was a LOT of global warming, a volcano had popped up previously, and before it was half sunk, all 9 of the specially marked "volcano" squares had returned to normal squares.

Something interesting along the same lines...
Deidre had a size 14 base that was endangered but didn't have a pressure dome, so I decided to take advantage of the situation and lay siege to her city by letting needlejets float above all squares in her city's radius that would've produced minerals (and since her city was about to sink, more than half of her city's squares were underwater, so I only had to lay siege to three squares). On the turn that the city sank, she was only a few minerals shy of completing it (on the last row, anyway). Instead of killing the city off, however, the computer decided to make a bit of a compromise. Her city ended up being a sea base with a pressure dome, but only was a size 6 city. Is this just a bug, or some programmer's justification for the AI being too stupid to rush build the pressure dome?

Yet another interesting thing that happened in that game...
Lal's AI, for whatever reason, decided he didn't mind if his cities sank into the sea. Because of this, about 1/3 of his cities were submerged. I was playing Yang, and therefore was at war with him. He put about 3 weenie sea bases near my mainland, and I picked them off with some needlejets and a locust. So what's he do? HE SURRENDERS TO ME! I'm running PS (like any good Yang should do), my land forces are nowhere near his (my mainland was on the other side of a large map from his), and he's still got around 9 good sized cities with a SP or two! Despite his losses, he was still third on the powergraph. My best guess is that he thought *I* destroyed those bases. Maybe the AI only looks at how much your power rating drops when at war to determine if they should surrender.
Hmmm... if that's true... Santiago could be kicking Morgan's tail across the map, and if I took a city or two, maybe Morgan would surrender to me. Ah, but that's getting too far off the thread subject...