03-02-2003 01:25									#1
	The Civ Files: RP Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Might as well start a new thread for RP issues.

Please post only RP issues!

jdjdjd says:

quote: Between you and me - I do not trust Gow as far as I can throw their warrior. And I can't throw him since he's just an image. I agree with you, completely on the trade, but as my concern is only your Great Empire, I let others deal with GoW. I will keep in touch. Have A Great Weekend, and keep the peace my friend. jdjdjd of España - Friend and Ambassador of Lux Invicta

	03-02-2003 02:26									#2
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Togas says:

quote: I just want to stress that we really hope you guys can stay at peace with ND. They've got a larger military and earlier UUs. And I don't trust GoW enough to know which side they'll fall on.

	03-02-2003 03:46									#3
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But RP don't seem very trustworthy either, from some information leaks to GOW from them.

Jd seems to like to create mistrust between other teams, though it may be true GoW aren't the most trustworthy team around.

GoW seems to think NDE might want to capture some of RP's land, maybe this means they don't see a reason to war with them, its unclear.

I suggest we don't trust anyone fully, and try and make our civ the best of all.

Wether we use underhand immorale methods, like breaking treaties depends on situations as they come up.

	03-02-2003 18:55									#4
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We should structure our priorities along the lines of our own defense, while avoiding isolation at all costs.

	04-02-2003 06:39									#5
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A key time will be when our current treaties with RP (and GoW even more so) come up for renewal. With RP so far away they are not in a position to attack us themselves, even as part of an alliance. The only civ they would have any reason to attack right now might be RP. OUR only problem might be if both RP and GoW treaties with us collapse and RP tries to hire GoW against us. Though personally I feel if they were going to hire GoW they would rather do it against RP. That more beneficial to them.

	05-02-2003 02:05									#6
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Back to trades. jdjdjd says:

quote: Hello Mi Amigo, I just wanted to let you know that, we are still trying to finalize the deal with GoW that Togas told you about several days ago. Hopefully, I'll have news for you either way soon. Will you still be interested in Writing even if we make the trade with GoW? Perhaps you can think of what you might trade for it. Do you have any idea what you would want in exchange for contact with the People of One Voice, Vox Controli? We have not seen any ND settler groups - have you? are they settling North and East towards you and GoW? Any indication from your scouts? I hope things settle down between you & ND, but please keep me posted. I doubt a war at this stage could help either of you. I wish you peace, jdjdjd, Friend and Ambassador to Lux Invicta

	05-02-2003 02:12									#7
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I replied:

quote: Hello jdjdjd! We have not seen any ND settlers lately, but we do see an awful lot of ND cities! As for the Military: fortunately, we are well defended (also with some offensive units, hehe) if they attack (we will not attack ourselves, since we agree with you: a war wouldn't benefit us). To be honest with you - I don't know where we should get Writing from if we cannot get it from you. The situation with ND is very tense, and I'm not very happy trading it from GoW. Do you have a proposal? As far as Contacts are concerned - we are still trying to make contact with other civs! We are still scouting out some lands. Keep me posted, BFM of Lux

I'm trying to:

a) play the victim of the trade deal;
b) spread the rumour that we have a good military (for if they have contacts with ND);
c) ignore the trade-for-vox-contacts issue.

	07-02-2003 00:32									#8
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Got this:

quote: ... apparently GoW and us are still negotiating. I have no update for you. My gut feeling is it may fall through - but do not quote me on that because, on occassion, I have been wrong. We will still work out a deal with you for Writing, whether we need HBR or not. We are interested in contact with Vox, GS or Lego - should you have it. Some Spaniards say Lux & Vox have met. Is it true and would you be willing to trade it should we be able to work out a deal? I will give you news as soon as I have it. jdjdjd, Friend & Ambassador to Lux Invicta

	07-02-2003 00:47									#9
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I will respond after I got a response from Vox about the Contacts deal.

	07-02-2003 04:37									#10
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I already told jdjdjd that we might have a deal along these lines for him. He will check with Togas.

	08-02-2003 19:49									#11
	Put an end to popups!

jdjdjd wants 25g in addition to Writing. He agrees with the 2-step plan, but I have not told him that we'll be actually trading contact with RP to Vox instead of the other way round.

GoW also has contact with Vox - I think we need to act NOW.

	09-02-2003 00:39									#12
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Yes, do it now.

	11-02-2003 06:56									#13
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It seems our original plans have fallen, due to RP's unwillingness to deal with their ally.

quote: From jdjdjd: Hello BFM and Trip, Togas asked me to confirm discussions Trip and he had about Writing for 100g or 5g/turn. I am sorry previous discussions we had have been wasted, I was quite shocked when I logged last night to find out we had made a deal with GoW. On another matter - My own opinion - I will deny if you repeat it to anyone including Spaniards & Togas- GoW & ND are planning something - so please beware. We have a jungle protecting us - you are not so lucky. Just be careful of what you tell Ghengis Farb and his crew. This unfortunately is based purely on game numbers and a hunch - sorry I have no real proof. As I tell all Spaniards trust no one and you will never be disappointed. Good Luck and let me know about the Writing deal. And please do not mention my hunch to anyone outside of the Ottoman Empire. jdjdjd, Friend & Ambassador to Lux Invicta p.s. - BFM when does your partying end? Hope you got some - you know - good presents.

Foiling their deal with GoW to get contact with GS should be sufficient to make a deal more favorable to Lux. I can assure you that I'm not willing to pay 100 gold or 5 GPT to them for it. I may eventually recommend that we get it from GoW, should they ever acquire it...

As far as NDE and GoW discussing an attack on us, I find it very unlikely. I can tell that GoW is not ready for war right now (as much as I can tell that NDE is, or will be soon). A possibility, but a very remote one. His hunch probably stems from a sour impression of GoW from RP. Either that, or GoW is really going out on a limb.

It's a pity that RP had to double-cross us as they did, I was rather fond of jdx3... As I heard from Togas, each of RP's ambassadors tends to favor that particular country with which they deal. Should this trend continue, eventual destruction of Roleplay may be necassary...

	11-02-2003 08:50									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Togas said that our alliance may or may not be renewed.

He said the greatest concern he had was that a war would soon occur between NDE and us, which is fair (and likely) enough. He tried arguing with his team that GoW might join in (which seems like a good possibility to them), and that a huge power void would be left on this continent. He said that his team would soon have a new proposal for us. I'm skeptical as to whether or not we'll get this deal renewed. I suppose splitting NDE with GoW is enough, though it would be nice to get some more support from RP to the south. If not, then I see a gradual decline of our workings with RP.

	12-02-2003 11:22									#15
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I talked more with Togas today, along with a lot of the Roleplay team, and things are looking up. He said that the alliance would be renewed with the exact same terms except for a few changes, namely "main thing was, if you guys start a war with ND, we have the option of withdrawing. otherwise, I think it'll be pretty much the same thing. Also had some provisions in there about no trade boycotts of allies, etc".

This is acceptable. If we are attacked prematurely by NDE before we are ready, then we have Roleplay to back us up (Togas said that in about 10 turns they should have 2 or 3 Horsemen, which is enough to draw off considerable NDE forces). On the other hand, if we feel that we are strong enough to strike before NDE does so, we could finish the deal with GoW, while keeping Roleplay out of the deal and keeping the integrity of the deal we made with our other allies. This should work out rather well for us, as Togas has a rather negative view of NDE at this point, since I explained to him how we've seen the NDE veteran Swordsmen, and how their scouts are blocking our road network.

The time for action soon approaches...

	13-02-2003 00:55									#16
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That deal is fine with me, since we have not intention of attacking NDE within that time frame anyways.

	13-02-2003 07:41									#17
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quote: Trip, As Togas said (or may have to you), we want to first offer Writing to you for 100g or 5gpt. Let me know what you think. And second, The original Alliance is waning - I think we have a turn or two left on it. We'd like to make some clarifications to the original, if we can agree....Let me know what you think before I edit the original document. 1) The alliance is no longer secret. Secrets are tough to keep in this game and maybe there's some benefit two both of us for the others to know that if they attack one of us that they must fight both of us. 2) If either of us goes to was due to our own hostile actions , participation is at discretion of the non-warring civ. For example if you invade ND, we do not have to join in, or something like that. 3) If either nation in the alliance declares war without first consulting the ally (at least 2 turns in advance), then either ally may withdraw from the alliance. 4) This is a defensive alliance. Should either of us declare war against a third party, the other is not required to join the war. 5) Allies may not act in any hostile manner towords the other ally, which includes trade and tech embargos. Let me know what you think and also if your team wants any changes to the alliance. Thanks, jdjdjd

	13-02-2003 09:20									#18
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Also, does anyone have any comments about the Writing trade? I may have found an alternative source in Vox.

	21-02-2003 04:57									#19
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We're getting Writing from GoW. I sent this to RP:

quote: Hello jdjdjd! It's been a while. In one of your posts, you asked for contact with other civs. I also know your civ is willing to trade Maths. My suggestion is to trade Maths for Contact with Vox. You'll have a new trading partner then. One more thing: please don't "stall" me anymore. The people of Lux grow tired of these kind of tactics. BFM

	02-03-2003 00:55									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sent the request about trading our Free Tech to RP (see 'trading techs around' thread).

Got this back from Togas:

quote: BFM, Thank you for your offer. I will post this message to my people and we will consider it. However, I am very annoyed that both of our requests to provide you with Writing have been ignored. We have been trying to deal with you for Writing for quite some time. My last offer to Trip was Writing for 60g. If you would please explain to me why our offers are being ignored, I will definately consider this offer of yours. --Togas

Trip - please get back to Togas and clarify!

	02-03-2003 03:21									#21
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I sent a mini-response to Togas, explaining to him that competition for getting us Writing is very intense, and that their current offer (60 gold) will probably be too high unless they can lower it. It probably won't yield us anything, but we can try.