19-02-2001 21:39									#1
	Empath or not - that is the question Increase Your PM Length

I try to build Rover Formers asap for many reasons but I've never added the Trance ability to them since they're already expensive in the early game. I always add Trance to my Transport Foils however.

But what about Recon or Scout Rovers? What is the consensus here based upon experience? Is it worth the extra energy?

If you add Trance to Formers - why? Is armor better/cheaper?

How about crawlers/trawlers? If you have an energy source consisting of more than 1 tile with crawlers/trawlers sitting there, which is better: 1) tranced crawlers/trawlers or 2) an empath rover/gunship on alert in the middle of the group or patrolling?

Edited because this dummy confused Trance and Empathy - duh!
[This message has been edited by lbores (edited February 19, 2001).]

	19-02-2001 21:52									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The following post is assuming you mean trance - empath has no effect on non-combat units, since they can't attack.

Formers - I know a lot of people typically use trance formers (and the various puns that go with it ) but I tend not to. Or rather, if I do, I will also equip them with armor.

Basically, the non-combat bonus will nullify the +50% bonus. Thus, the unit will defend at normal strengt for any unit - not favourable odds, in any case. However, it might be worth (if you have the energy) upgrading them to 0-2t-1, as any unit with armor will not get the non-combat penalty, and as such will survive the vast majority of mw attacks. The downside to this, of course, is that it is rather expensive, and is only worth doing if you build a bog-standard former, and then upgrade.

On crawlers - I know a lot of experienced players heavily advocate this, as it can be useful in many ways -

1) It helps defend from psi units (when combined with armor, of course).
2) You can cash the crawler in for its full mineral value which will be a lot higher than it was originally.

I tend not to use this as much as I should, but it can be an extremely potent weapon if utilised properly.

Rovers/ships, pod popping, it is absolutely 100% worth it. Any help killing/defending against mws is a massive boost. When combined with armor, it is also worth it on transports - mainly because the cost of losing 8 land units to an IoD can be massive.

	20-02-2001 10:26									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

OK, we have a non-combat trance unit defending against a MW, both base morale:

Mind Worm:
Psi: 3
Total = 3.00

Trance Former (0-1t-1):
Psi: 2
Trance: +50%
Non-combat: -50%
Sensor: +25%
Total = 2.00

Not worth it. Now, we'll put armor on that former....

Mind Worm:
Psi: 3
Total = 3.00

Trance Former (0-2t-1):
Psi: 2
Trance: +50%
Sensor: +25%
Total = 3.75

That is what I mean.

	20-02-2001 10:32									#6
	Remove this text

Ah! Me gets it! Now me go and dust me for fleas.

	19-02-2001 23:03									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

lbores - you can upgrade unity rovers and transports, but you have to upgrade them individually during their turn, which uses the movement. You can't reach them from the design workshop to upgrade them all at once, so that is probably why you think you can't upgrade them. But if I find independent rovers, I hold on to them as long as possible! I tend to build rovers to explore, and keep independent rovers in cities as defense when necessary, because I'd rather lose the ones I pay support for.

I don't put trance or armor on formers. I do build 'tranceports', and I keep the independent foil tranceports around even after I get cruisers.

I don't put empath or trance on rovers. Sometimes I do later in the game if I have the Xeno Dome so they can move through fungus and harvest worms, if I don't have anything better to build.

	20-02-2001 00:35									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

and remember that resonanace armor can add another psi bonus.

Generally I never have an attack unit among my trawlers/crawlers since attack units are almost always more useful elsewhere. I usually have quite a lot of trawlers/crawlers and the number of rovers/gunships to protect them would be too high. After all, worms come out of nowhere.

My strategy is usually to simply accept that a crash upgrade to resonance/trance might be necessary for a unit or two (these are often later cashed for an SP). I have toyed with empath needlejets that do double duty of patrolling the frontiers for AI faction units while having a good ability to kill a worm. However these are no use against bigger stacks as they kill only one. In frontier areas my basic attack rover is adequate, given equal morale, as it has the 3:2 attack advantage.

	20-02-2001 00:49									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

It costs no more to put synth armour on a rover than not, and the interesting thing is that trance is then free because the rover is a defender, so a few 1-2t-2 rovers can be good to have around the place, and they cost no more than 1-1-2's (and interestingly they cost less than 1-1t-2)

A nice configuration to upgrade a unity rover to can be 1e-2t-2, for a support free cheap worm killer, especially in OCC games.

I hardly ever armour my formers/crawlers, for the simple reason that there morale is usually too low to survive an attack, altough if you snagged the CN then it would be a more favourable prospect.