03-02-2003 20:37									#1
	1868 Science Ministry report. Put an end to popups!

Our current situation

Beakers per tech: 2442. We produce 696 science/turn. To get 3 turns/tech, we need to increase beaker output to 814+/turn.

Moreover, before the game ends, we will be running 5 turns/tech, down from our current 4, unless we a) increase beaker production from key cities and/or b)supplement beaker output with regular caravan deliveries.

We can increase beaker production in 4 ways - increasing science as a percentage of wealth production from the current 50%; increasing population by growing our cities faster (to work more tiles); building science improvements; and delivering a lot more Freights.

1)Increasing science at the expense of luxuries will put several cities into unrest. While science could be increased at the expense of taxes, revenues would be at a bare minimum - and probably need to be supplemented with Freight delivery.

2)We have lots of cities that could celebrate up to size 12 quite easily and thereby work more tiles and produce more science (Seville, Cordoba, Valencia, Salamanca, WhereItsAttown, Granada, and Pamplona all have tiles improved but no population to work them). Unfortunately, without Cure for Cancer, they won't celebrate right now - even with 100% luxuries!

3) Possible science improvements - University in St Praski - 18 more beakers per turn. Avila Univerity would yield 22 additional beakers/turn. Leon University - 15 additional beakers/turn. Total: 55 beakers, or less than 1/2 of what we need to get to 3 techs/turn.

Superhighways are a good option as trade from roads is increased 50%. A city with a lot of worked roaded squares (as opposed to sea squares) will produce nearly as much more science by adding SH, as it would by adding a University. The other big SH bonus is that trade goods will be worth a LOT more, delivered to or from a Superhighwayed city.

4) Freight: St Praski and Avila could each produce a Freight in 3-4 turns which when delivered, would probably yield 4 times as many beakers as a University would per turn, so that may be a better option. Even undemanded goods could yield close to 50 beakers when delivered to a large city, along with an equivalent amount of cash.


RECOMMENDATIONS:


My suggestion - build Superhighways in Capitol, Cadiz, and Avila, for a start. Immediately afterwards start producing Freight in Cadiz as it has 3 free commodities - Silk and Spice are highly demanded!

Deliver all demanded Freight ASAP (not delivering it when science box is already full, of course). However, if a city is about to produce a Superhighway, hold off delivery until completion. Deliver undemanded Freight afterwards (in case demand opens up).

Focus more on building Freight and Science improvements than on building Offshore Platforms, and Harbours for cities that have a food surplus and aren't using it up by celebrating. If we trade enough, and boost our base trade with SH, we can build up enough cash and science to buy the spaceship, instead of needing the shields to build it.

Tech path: Research Mass Production as it leads to desired techs (Space Flight, Plastics) - but be careful to not start Apollo until we can be sure to complete the spacecraft in a short time. Computers would help immensely as well - a Research Lab in CAPITOL would yield 54 additional beakers/turn, and even more with Superhighways. SETI, IIRC, only assists cities which have a University - so if we're going to build SETI we need to get some more Universities in place.

Poll to follow.

	04-02-2003 04:33									#2
	Re: 1868 Science Ministry report. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man 2)We have lots of cities that could celebrate up to size 12 quite easily and thereby work more tiles and produce more science (Seville, Cordoba, Valencia, Salamanca, WhereItsAttown, Granada, and Pamplona all have tiles improved but no population to work them). Unfortunately, without Cure for Cancer, they won't celebrate right now - even with 100% luxuries!

Courthouses could get those cities celebrating with just 1-2 elvi. Might be something to look at depending on timeframes - we may have waited centuries too long to have a reasonable chance to build them this game

Otherwise looks like good reccomendations

	04-02-2003 04:44									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Courthouses are an option - but CfC would probably be cheaper in the long term (same shields as 10 Courthouses, IIRC, but zero maintenance). Besides... we already have a tug-of-war going on re: Banks vs. Universities vs. Superhighways vs. (argh!) Offshore Platforms vs. Freight... it's going to be hard to squeeze in any Courthouses.

You're right in saying that they may have been left too late.

	04-02-2003 10:00									#4
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courthouses shouldn't have any upkeep since we have adam smith

	04-02-2003 20:16									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oops, forgot about Adam

Still, CfC is probably the better option, unless we only want 10 Courthouses. And that assumes that we want to celebrate our cities. I like the idea of celebratory growth, but it'll take either Courthouses or CfC, and either option will temporarily slow down our science progress. In the long term, it's a good strategy IMO.

	05-02-2003 04:23									#6
	Re: 1868 Science Ministry report. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man SETI, IIRC, only assists cities which have a University - so if we're going to build SETI we need to get some more Universities in place.

SETI acts as a Research Lab in every city, which increases each city's science output by 50%. It is cumulative (according to the Civilopedia) with Library and University (at 50% each). As I interpret that, it means it shouldn't *require* Libraries and/or Universities, and that all 3 act independently on the base science level of a city.

So, if you had 10 beakers produced in a city, adding a Library would add 5 beakers, adding a University would add 5, and adding a Research Lab would add 5. That's, 10, 15, 20, 25. I don't think a University adds 50% of the total10+5 (for 22), and a Research Lab adding 50% of the total 22 (for 33).

So SETI would be like adding 29 Universities (we have 4) and 4 Research Labs. I think SETI would make the Minister of Science a *very happy camper*.

Unless the stupid Civilopedia is wrong again...

	05-02-2003 04:33									#7
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I'm all for SETI to improve our science. Should mass prod. not be offered again after adv. flight, I'll research rocketry, with Moblie warfare as a backup.

	05-02-2003 04:34									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We've got lots of spare food caravans, so we should build the SETI program as soon as we get computers.

As for the amount that SETI improves our science rate, it should go up 50% from the baseline, the same as adding a university to every city, or a library to the few without.

	05-02-2003 04:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 We've got lots of spare food caravans, so we should build the SETI program as soon as we get computers. As for the amount that SETI improves our science rate, it should go up 50% from the baseline, the same as adding a university to every city, or a library to the few without.

Thanks for the verification. Sometimes the Civilopedia is "imperfectly accurate".

	05-02-2003 04:56									#10
	Re: Re: 1868 Science Ministry report. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by cavebear So SETI would be like adding 29 Universities (we have 4) and 4 Research Labs. I think SETI would make the Minister of Science a *very happy camper*. Unless the stupid Civilopedia is wrong again...

It would make me a bemused backpacker at least

I spent the last 1/2 hour hunting in vain through old threads, looking for the place where I read that SETI only helps cities with universities. Civilopedia has been proved wrong by Apolyton a LOT. Tonight I'll check my old savegames.

In the absence of evidence supporting my contention that SETI needs universities to function, I favour it

	05-02-2003 05:22									#11
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"imperfectly accurate".


Half the time the people who write the manuals, don't have the finished game in front of them.

STYOM, save some time, and do what I did. Cheat and build an empire, or load a saved game, it doesn't matter which.

After selling all science improvements, record the science production of every city before the SETI program.

Build the SETI with cheated caravans, or real, again it doesn't matter.

The beaker increase should correspond with a 50% increase to the baseline.

	05-02-2003 05:49									#12
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I'll take your word for it obiwan

So, in that case... gimme SETI!

	05-02-2003 06:29									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man I'll take your word for it obiwan So, in that case... gimme SETI!

Lead us to the Wonder of SETI, Science-Master/Minister STYOM. Guide thy People through the dark twisting turns of the tech maze. Let us arrive at the fount of true knowledge and hear the words of the Sagan bestowed upon our anxious minds that the light of new and better learning shall follow us in our perilous path to victory!