04-02-2003 22:48									#1
	OFFICIAL: Diplomatic policy Tired of ads?

This is a poll about general diplomatic policy. I don't control production or unit movement, so I have no power over what happens there (although I hope the respective ministers will keep the outcome of this poll in mind in their decision making). When you vote for befriending a civ, you vote for attempting to get the best possible relationship with this civ: getting treaties, exchanging maps, maybe occassionally giving money (but not without further polling or at least more discussion). Voting for ignoring a civ pretty much speaks for itself: no diplomatic contacts will be maintained unless absolutely necessary. Voting for preparing for war means that we won't bother to sign any treaties, decline offers and maybe even try to piss them off. In the last case I will also advise the other cabinet members to adjust their policies accordingly (i.e. build units and mass near the border when possible), although I can only advise, not command anything.

To clarify: this is not about declaring war NOW, it's about preparing for it. Actually declaring war will probably still be at least 20-70 turns away.

No option for going to war with more than one civ was included, I think most of us agree that that is suicide. If you don't, feel free to vote for 'Other policy' and explain your opinion here.

Actually, regardless of what you vote, explaining your position is more than welcomed.

This poll has no official expiration date but is intended to be indicative for the next ~20 turns (unless circumstances require a change in policy), i.e. the next 1 or 2 turn chats. As I know the community is rather divided on the issue of war and peace, the outcome of this poll will probably be somewhat ambiguous. It is therefore more intended for information gathering (to see how the community actually feels about diplomacy at this point) than as an actual decision making poll. I will interpret the outcome and act in a way that I hope most people will find acceptable. If needed and possible, more polls about more specific issues/decisions will follow (but with 2 turn chats per week there may not be enough time).

	05-02-2003 01:34									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

War with Austrians, Be very very friendly with Germans. And be nice to Thailand (Not as much as with German).

We cant afford a enemy as strong as German now. Lets be very nice to them but still they are in second on our to-kill-list.

Thai can be a big fried of us. I would like peace with them and keep the friendship for many year to go. Still lets be more focused in our fake friendship with the germans

	05-02-2003 02:15									#3
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though i am against it, some war is probably inevitable. It certainly wont be w/ germany or thailand, so we should befriend them. we will be slaughtering the poor austrians most likely so we should ignore them. No sense in bieng a liar and a brutal,warmongering bully.

	05-02-2003 05:46									#4
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no war, befriend all, later (much later) war to those who resist being befriended. VOTE APP!

	05-02-2003 06:28									#5
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the germans are not trustworthy b/c they are right outside our broders

	05-02-2003 07:00									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

My position and that of the APP are well known as they have been largely debated in the "Minister of defence" thread. Peace with all the nations around us.

I won't consider a war until we have explored the land around us and settle the available place.

	05-02-2003 20:13									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

can't we all just be friends?

	05-02-2003 21:24									#8
	Got spare money?

It's good we already have a peace treaty with the Thais but if we are going to attack Austria (and I'm pretty sure we will eventually) we need a peace treaty with Germany too. Otherwise they are going to send stacks towards our cities in about 50 turns and we won't be able to concentrate on Austria. If we don't have stack of at least 8 units in our cities then they will attack for sure, if we have more then maybe - unless we have a peace treaty, then we can send those units towards Austria. So appease the Germans, give them some more gold and try the peace treaty again. Beware of military pacts with either of them because they will ask us to attack the other for sure - something we can't do.

	05-02-2003 22:10									#9
	Support Apolyton

Mapfi,

kind of my point of view, nothing really to add.

But don't shuffle our valuables up there 'whatever'...........

	06-02-2003 01:55									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just how powerful are the germans? I haven't seen a graph anywhere so i can't judge their level of scariness I think it is not good that their leader is an evil genius - this basicaly means that we can never trust any treaty/agreement we have with the germans. So any thing we give them to sweeten our deals is wasted money/maps etc.In fact they may make lots of demands for cash as time goes by so we could end up at war at any momment.We could end up with war with both weather we want it or not. Thoughts on this?

	06-02-2003 04:29									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Your comments are very intersting CoT, I have seen a graphic and the Germans are the most powerful nation of the game, we can't afford to be at war with the Austrians under the threat of a German attack. As far as I am concerned, giving money is a waste of resources we need elsewhere, your comments confort my opinion on this issue.

	06-02-2003 05:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Your comments are very intersting CoT, I have seen a graphic and the Germans are the most powerful nation of the game, we can't afford to be at war with the Austrians under the threat of a German attack. As far as I am concerned, giving money is a waste of resources we need elsewhere, your comments confort my opinion on this issue.

Well i was hinting that maybe we should attack germany instead of austria, there was no anti-war angle
We will be forced into war soon by the very proximity(austria+germany) and nature(germany) of our neighbours. I would rather try to weaken one of them and at the same time build us up so we could defend against the other. And yes giving lots of money away might be wasteful - i'd rather give maps if we have to give something?

I would just add that all members of the War Party should try to vote the same as this is a very important poll and any division will work against our empires survival. So It looks like we need to vote for war with austria(which does have the better city sites) to make our numbers count.

	06-02-2003 05:46									#13
	Tired of ads?

Austria is a fanatic - a warmonger per se - and the germans actually like us more right now. We should try to get a peace treaty from them the first turn of the next chat or asap if we need to give them money first.

	06-02-2003 15:14									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a million times – we cannot afford a war right now. Not with the Germans, not with the Austrians, not with the Thai, not even with the little dim-witted men from Frikfrakistan!

Peace.

	06-02-2003 23:48									#15
	Remove this text

There is the flip-side to that argument DoT
We are/can be soon(next 1-15 turns??) strong enough to take two of Austria's cities and hold on to them. In a short space of time our civ will have doubled in size(more if we also settle a few on top of what we take) and we will, crucialy, have weakend a soon-to-be enemy. So we can't afford to sit around and just hope no-one will pick a fight with us, a sad fact IMHO. I don't like war, i just can smell it coming and want our nation to survive the conflict.

	07-02-2003 01:17									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The Austrians are to close, we have the rivers to reach their cities very fast, and I think sooner or later we need to take the land that is "rightfully" ours. So a war in the long term with the Austrians is inevitable. So do it as soon as we have the resources, but be friend with the other ones as long as the Austrians aren't history.

-Martin