05-02-2003 06:04									#1
	Sad Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I was brought to tears today as I watched a 15 year old shuttled through our justice system and sentenced to life for 1st degreee murder without physical evidence and without intent. The anchors were calling him a killer before I heard the verdict so I already knew how the story was going to end. His "confession" was completely out of synch with the evidence..... he testified he made his 12 year old friend bleed to death.... when there was no blood. It was also given without a lawyer present after a 2.5 hour interrogation.

His lawyer was incompetent, the prosecutor was no better, all he did was parade pictures of the murder scene, the graphic images were enough to convict..
His name was John Anthony Silva. He is 15, and serving life behind bars.

I am in Washington... this occured in Florida.

I can't stop caring. I hate this helplessness. I cant stop being angry about injustice.... but it is breaking me down. I can't stand the apathy.

I quit writing here for a while because it gets my blood boiling worse than watching the nightly news..... but I had to vent.

I guess next I am going to write my legislators.

	05-02-2003 06:19									#2
	Got spare money?

No death penalty, huh ?

	05-02-2003 06:23									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Confessions should be thrown out of the justice system. It's too easy to coerce someone into confessing to something they didn't do.


And yes, Florida has the death penalty. After Texas, we're the worst state in the union.

	05-02-2003 06:28									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

John Anthony Silva was tried and sentenced two years ago, wasn't he? Is there a new development in the case?

	05-02-2003 06:29									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

AnnC sighting!

	05-02-2003 06:29									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Worst, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

	05-02-2003 06:30									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Since you're at the computer, Diss, play your Firstime turn!

	05-02-2003 06:31									#8
	Put an end to popups!

quote: John Anthony Silva was tried and sentenced two years ago, wasn't he? Is there a new development in the case?

That long ago eh? I guess I was better off not knowing these past two years, because I will have a hard time sleeping. I just don't understand how all the classic red flags of an invalid confession were missed..... I don't see how he could have had such an incompetent..... ugghh.

EDIT: I just saw, the trial took 3 measely days..... three... the defense attorney did not even call any witnesses.

	05-02-2003 06:32									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What is your solution? Abolish the jury system?

I mean, revultion is one thing, you need to offer solutions.

	05-02-2003 06:33									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Maybe, just maybe, this kid will have enough support from freedeom organisations to develop a correct defense.

It is way too easy to extract confessions, especially from teenagers. These confessiosn are as trustworthy as teenagers' lies.

	05-02-2003 06:34									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I know you believe in the kill them all and let God sort them out theory of criminal justice, but every objective of the Texas DP system says it's seriously flawed. Just once I'd like you DP supporters to admit that just because someone is charged or convicted of a crime doesn't necessarily mean that they did it.

Heck, Texas' public defenders are so bad and given so little money to investigate on behalf of their client it's a wonder why the state even bothers with the pretence of justice and doesn't just allow police to execute people on the spot.

And we're only marginally better here in Florida, probably because we have less people.

	05-02-2003 06:37									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

it is pretty shitty, isn't it?

	05-02-2003 06:41									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Che: are you talking to Slow?

And I'll admit it, just because someone is convicted might mean they didn't do it. There is always a small possibility of error is every judgement. That still doesn't dissuade me from the death penalty.

	05-02-2003 06:43									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It did occur two years ago.... John Anthony Silva got a 3 day trial ... yes three days.... to prove his innocence... his lawyer didn't even call any witnesses.

Feb 5th - Feb 8th 2001 was all he got to determine the course of his freedom.

What am I going to do... I am contacting Libertarians in Florida, to urge them to wirte their legislators to make a law that juvenile interrogation require a lawyer... with noioption to waive that right by the legal gaurdian... (his mom was asleep during parts of the trial), or even by the suspect if he is a juvenile.

Then I am writing my own legislators here in Washington state.

Then I am going to write Frontline and NPR and ask them to take a look at getting this case some publicity, so perhaps a real lawyer can step up to the task.

It seems the question of whether we should throw 15 year olds away for life superceeded the question of whetther he was guilty or not.....

	05-02-2003 06:43									#15
	Put an end to popups!

I've said many times, thank God for DNA.
Executions should have DNA proof, then no appeals.

Back to your "worst".
What you mean to say is, Texas leads, by far, in doing as the voters ask.

	05-02-2003 06:54									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Back to your "worst". What you mean to say is, Texas leads, by far, in doing as the voters ask.

I suppose if the voters asked to have all the Jews in the state rounded up and killed you'd be fine with that, too.

	05-02-2003 06:56									#17
	Remove this text

NeOmega, I think it's great that you are using your democratic voice like this. I wish there were more ppl like you

	05-02-2003 07:03									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'll tell you what. Your comparison is insane, and I'll leave it at that, because I don't want your...opinions to lead me into temptation.

However, when making my initial post, it was in an effort to illuminate for him how much worse he might feel, if the young man in question had been given the dp.

	05-02-2003 07:06									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Che: are you talking to Slow? And I'll admit it, just because someone is convicted might mean they didn't do it. There is always a small possibility of error is every judgement. That still doesn't dissuade me from the death penalty.

With the kind of justice sysytem described as operating in Florida and Texas (I recall one public defender in Texas was asleep during the trial) I would aver there is more than a small possibility of error in judgment and sentencing.

Is it your position that in the absence of even the semblance of a fair trial, the execution of a person for a crime they did not commit is simply the price you pay for having a death penalty which does not seem to dissuade anyone from committing homicide- given the murder rate in the United States?

If it is a crime to take life, then the death penalty should be done away with- there are too many instances of factors other than a desire for a just trial influencing the judgment and sentencing of accused people.

	05-02-2003 07:12									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Now THAT was an intelligent answer Sloww

	05-02-2003 08:16									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand

Golly.

How almost funny.

Unlike you, I am concerned that a system of justice should work and be transparent- if you don't care about that, fine, why not just agitate to bring back gladiatorial combat, or begin harvesting the bodies of convicted people for organs? Perhaps you could have live executions on the Fox Network, with appropriate advertising. Or how about lynchings, with souvenir photos and pieces of the hanging rope- oh, wait, you already had that in Texas.

	05-02-2003 08:22									#23
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand [img]

It doesn't bother you that people recieve unfair trials?

	05-02-2003 08:25									#24
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ain't nobody's business but Floridians.

Not having defense witnesses is a valid defense tactic when you don't think the plaintiff has the goods. However, it probably wasn't a good tactic.

The jury decided he was guilty. In the absence of glaring evidence the other way, it is not for us to gainsay them. That's the job of the appellate courts.

	05-02-2003 08:25									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

They are all gung ho about the death penalty until the day they get convicted of a crime they didn't commit.

I think race plays a big part in support, keeps the minorities down.

	05-02-2003 10:27									#26
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by DanS The jury decided he was guilty. In the absence of glaring evidence the other way, it is not for us to gainsay them.

It's certainly within our right to say whether or not the boy had a fair trial.

	05-02-2003 10:58									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

He has his appeals. If he had a sufficiently unfair trial, then the appellate courts will handle it. If they are unable to deal with it effectively, then Florida citizens (you) can petition your governor to make it right.

I can't be arsed.

	05-02-2003 10:59									#28
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by DanS Ain't nobody's business but Floridians. The jury decided he was guilty. In the absence of glaring evidence the other way, it is not for us to gainsay them. That's the job of the appellate courts.

My business now, because I am making it my business. I have sent enveloped letters to 4 state representatives and 3 federal, as welll as my governor... handwritten.
People confessed to being lots of things before being sent to the Gulag Archipelago... doesn't necessarily mean the confessions were true.

I understand that of course probably no torture methods were used on John Silva to extract a confession.... if he were an adult and had a good understanding of the American Justice system, the concept of prison, and exposure to the fallacies of interrogation, such as suggestions that maybe a "bad" part of you did it... blah, blah, blah.

The jury system has become incredibly flawed, since now lawyers realistically try to weed out anybody with intelligence, and try to get the most emotionally weak in the jury box.

None of my "peers" are so easily manipulated by showboating and grandstanding. In fact to get on a jury you have to mask any semblence of free thought.

	05-02-2003 11:03									#29
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DanS He has his appeals. If he had a sufficiently unfair trial, then the appellate courts will handle it. If they are unable to deal with it effectively, then Florida citizens (you) can petition your governor to make it right. I can't be arsed.

funny how over 100 people have been acquitted because of DNA evidence.... w/o it, and relying on the old jury system, they would still be rotting today.

BTW, I couldn't help your avatar has Benjamin Franklin....


"Better 500 guilty men go free tahn one innocent man be imprisoned."

Guess who I am quoting.... hint he's on a dollar bill, was never a president, and you use him for your avatar....

	05-02-2003 11:20									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Franklin said a lot of dumb things. But he said a lot of things, so his batting average is good.

Look, to convict you have to have a unanimous decision among a jury of several (12? 15?). That's a very high bar. If I were in the jurors' position, the unanimity suggests that I would also have voted to convict.

If he's actually not guilty, then this will be gone through on appeal. Or by the governor (I guess). That's the way the system works. My heart doesn't bleed over this.