05-02-2003 06:22									#1
	All Time All Star Baseball Teams Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Only a couple weeks until Spring Training, so I figured what are your All Star All Time teams (and backups if you wish)?

C: Josh Gibson (Negro Leagues) / Johnny Bench
1B: Jimmy Foxx / Lou Gehrig
2B: Joe Morgan / Eddie Collins
3B: Mike Schmidt / Wade Boggs
SS: Alex Rodriguez / Honus Wagner
LF: Barry Bonds / Ted Williams
CF: Willy Mays / Ty Cobb
RF: Babe Ruth (duh ) / Roberto Clemente

SP: Walter Johnson
SP: Cy Young
SP: Christy Matthewson
SP: Tom Seaver
SP: Sandy Koufax

(Bob Gibson is the 6th starter)

RP: Goose Gossage / Dan Quisenberry

And Today?

C: Ivan Rodriguez
1B: Jason Giambi (or Jim Thome)
2B: Roberto Alomar (still)
3B: Jeff Kent (yes, he's better than Scott Rolen)
SS: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Barry Bonds (duh)
CF: Lance Berkman
RF: Vladimir Guerrero

SP: Pedro Martinez
SP: Randy Johnson
SP: Greg Maddux
SP: Curt Schilling
SP: Barry Zito

RP: John Smoltz

	05-02-2003 06:27									#2
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Yours are pretty good, Imran.
I'd stick Nolan Ryan ahead of...Seaver.

	05-02-2003 06:27									#3
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ahh good you have Shcilling and Randy Johnson on there.

	05-02-2003 06:30									#4
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Nah, Sloww... Ryan wasn't the pitcher Seaver was. But I know you gotta stick up for Texas .

	05-02-2003 06:31									#5
	Re: All Time All Star Baseball Teams Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui 3B: Jeff Kent (yes, he's better than Scott Rolen) CF: Lance Berkman

Neither of those people play those positions anymore

	05-02-2003 06:43									#6
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Kent used to be a 3B and Berkman used to play CF, so I'll put them there if I want .

	05-02-2003 06:45									#7
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Who holds the records?

	05-02-2003 06:46									#8
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My 2002 Fantasy team was:

Ivan did horribly last year, but thats because he was out most of it because of back problem. We'll see how he does this year.

Kent played 2B in 2002. Makes him even better IMO. Good 2B is a must for any good fantasy league team.

	05-02-2003 06:48									#9
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With a blazing fastball that approached 100 mph and a work ethic like no other, Nolan Ryan dominated hitters for an unparalleled 27 seasons on his way to an all-time record 5,714 strikeouts. During four decades of prominence, he totaled 324 victories and a host of major league records. Most notable of his milestones are a mystifying seven no-hitters and 12 one-hitters. The eight-time All-Star fanned a record 383 batters in 1973, and his career strikeouts encompassed 1,176 different players.

Did you know ... that Nolan Ryan is the only pitcher to strike out the side on nine pitched balls in both the National League (April 19, 1968) and the American League (July 9, 1972)?

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/h.../ryan_nolan.htm


You were saying?

	05-02-2003 06:56									#10
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why not boot alomar and put kent in 2B? Im a met fan, but I'd personally make it 2B Kent and 3B troy glaus

	05-02-2003 07:21									#11
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My all time team:

C: Piazza (Piazza is the best hitting catcher EVER, and he makes up for his lousy D with BIG O)

1B: Gehrig

2B: Hornsby

3B: Schmidt (When it's all said and done Rolen might end up being better)

SS: Ozzie Smith (He makes up for Piazza's horrific defense)

LF: Teddy Ballgame gets my vote here for these reasons: If he would have played the seasons he lost to the service, MOST major hitting records would all belong to him. The best hitter ever, and more Bonds-like in his approach to the media than many will let you believe.

CF: Mays/Mantle Mickey Mantle was the second most talented person to EVER play baseball, right behind Mays. If Mickey wouldn't have been hurt all the time, many slugging records would have been in jeapordy.

RF: Ruth People call Bonds a modern day Ruth, but in order to TRULY match Ruthian standards, Bonds would have had to hit 35 more HR than ANY OF HIS COMPETITORS. Ruth was a great hitter but also a great pitcher.

RHP: Walter Johnson-Bob Gibson-Greg Maddux
LHP: Randy Johnson-Sandy Koufax

Reliever: Goose

Bonds would be my first bat off of the bench. Pete Rose would have been my utilityman and pinch runner.

	05-02-2003 07:27									#12
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I personally think Bonds is overrated, but as 2002 showed. putchers are dead scared of him. And he gets waaay too much BBs for anyone to really ignore. He's certainly a valuable player. I'd give him that.

	05-02-2003 07:33									#13
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He's better than a valuable player, he is the greatest hitter/slugger of our generation.

The old fogeys got to watch Mays, Mantle and Musial play. I watched Gwynn and Boggs and Mattingly play, and now we get to watch Bonds play.

He IS that good, and is easily the best player of the nineties.

	05-02-2003 07:37									#14
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The 1996 Chicago Cubs

	05-02-2003 07:39									#15
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I think you almost have to have Maddux as SP on the all-time team. And I'd give Eckersley some consideration for RP.

	05-02-2003 07:45									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox He's better than a valuable player, he is the greatest hitter/slugger of our generation. The old fogeys got to watch Mays, Mantle and Musial play. I watched Gwynn and Boggs and Mattingly play, and now we get to watch Bonds play. He IS that good, and is easily the best player of the nineties.

I'm more impressed by his ability to earn a walk over his bat avg, either by IBB or BB, because that really is his biggest threat to any team. (Well I guess having the credit of being a monster helps to attain the walk but...)

	05-02-2003 16:44									#17
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All time:

C: Johnny Bench/Yogi Berra
1B: Lou Gehrig/Jimmie Foxx
2B: Joe Morgan/Rogers Hornsby
3B: Mike Schmidt/George Brett
SS: Honus Wagner/Cal Ripken
LF: Ted Williams/Barry Bonds
CF: Willie Mays/Mickey Mantle
RF: Babe Ruth/Frank Robinson

SP: Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Tom Seaver, Roger Clemens, Bob Gibson
RP: Goose Gossage, Dennis Eckersley

Active:

C: Mike Piazza/Pudge Rodriguez
1B: Jeff Bagwell/Jason Giambi
2B: Jeff Kent/Roberto Alomar
3B: Scott Rolen/Chipper Jones (yes, I know Chipper doesn't play 3B anymore, but...)
SS: Alex Rodriguez/Nomar Garciaparra
LF: Barry Bonds/Rickey Henderson (in terms of career value)
CF: Bernie Williams/Junior Griffey (again, career value)
RF: Vlad Guerrero/Sammy Sosa
DH: Manny Ramirez/Edgar Martinez

SP: Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson
RP: John Smoltz, Mariano Rivera

Last edited by Vlad Antlerkov on 07-02-2003 at 16:33

	05-02-2003 20:49									#18
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Dunno about all-time... too hard to choose.

Now:

C: Pudge/Piazza
1B: Giambi/Thome
2B: Soriano (small sample size, I know, but if he can do what he did with zero strike zone recognition... what if he manages to learn some?)/Alomar
3B: Glaus/Rolen
SS: A-Rod/Tejada
LF: Bonds/G. Anderson
CF: Bernie Williams/Torii Hunter
RF: Vlad/Manny Ramirez

SP: Unit
SP: Pedro
SP: Zito
SP: Maddux
SP: Shilling

RP: Mariano, Smoltz

-Arrian

	05-02-2003 20:57									#19
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quote: You were saying?

I was and I continue to say that Ryan isn't as good as Seaver .

There is more to pitching than a fastball, Sloww. IIRC, Ryan never even won a Cy Young Award. Seaver has 3, in many less seasons . Seaver also led the league in ERA 3 times and has 5 20 game winning seasons, compared to 2 20 game winning seasons for Ryan and leading the league in ERA 2 times.

You were saying?

	05-02-2003 22:22									#20
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I think relying on win/loss stats is silly. In Ryan's case, he often was playing for a mediocre, or even downright bad, team. ERA vs. league ERA... that's what matters to me.

I've not examined the Seaver vs. Ryan debate, so I don't know what my criteria of choice would say.

I just don't like basing opinions of pitchers on W/L, when it could be that they pitched for the 2002 Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

-Arrian

	05-02-2003 22:50									#21
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New-Time Team: (I'll do Old-Time later)

C: Mike Piazza [S], Ivan Rodriguez

Rodriguez's been tailing off, so Piazza's bat gets the starting nod.

1B: Jason Giambi [S], Todd Helton, Jim Thome

I think we're gonna see a monster year out of Giambi, kids. Cross your fingers

2B: Roberto Alomar, Alfonso Soriano [S]

One bad year does not cost Alomar a spot, but Soriano's going to redefine this position in the next decade

SS: Nomar Garciaparra, Alex Rodriguez [S]

Okay, okay, I'll admit it... Jeter's a tad overrated. There was no way he was beating out A-Rod here anyway.

3B: Eric Chavez, Scott Rolen [S]

Rolen might explode now that he's finally in friendlier confines.

LF: Barry Bonds [S], Brian Giles

Giles is here because he carries the entire load of the Pittsburgh Pirates franchise on his back and doesn't get enough recognition for it.

CF: Lance Berkman [S], Jim Edmonds, Bernie Williams

Don't you dare give me **** over putting Bernie here.

RF: Vladimir Guerrero [S], Sammy Sosa

I bet Vlad can't wait for the move to D.C. next season, because then everyone will finally see what the hubbub is all about.

DH: Edgar Martinez

Just needed to be said.

SP: Bartolo Colon, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Barry Zito

The Unit and Schilling are the vets, Pedro's the superstar, and Colon and Zito are the anchor rocks. The short of Maddux not being on this list is "I don't like him" and "I think he's overrated".

RP: Billy Koch, Trevor Hoffman, Mariano Rivera

Koch for a helping hand, Hoffman's my closer and Mo's my setup guy - which is what he always should have been, dammit!

	05-02-2003 23:09									#22
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Put Pudge with your "Old Team" roster.

	06-02-2003 06:06									#23
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Arrian, Seaver didn't always have the best of teams either .

Also, if you use Bill James' win shares measure, Seaver has 389.4 Win Shares and Ryan has 332.3 win shares (divide by 3 to get total number of games won by themselves... well more or less).

I'm NOT saying that Ryan was bad. I'm just saying that Ryan isn't as good as Seaver. I mean, there is a great case to be made that Seaver is the best after WW2 pitcher (maybe even better than Koufax or Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez).

quote: Don't you dare give me **** over putting Bernie here.

I'd personally put Cameron on there. Not even mention Cameron's upside... or perhaps Torii Hunter.

	06-02-2003 06:11									#24
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All time:

C: Josh Gibson
1: Lou Gehrig
2: Jackie Robinson
SS: Ernie Banks
3: Mike Schmidt
OF: Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle
P: Satchel Paige

	06-02-2003 11:21									#25
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Reismark, I don't see how you can put Billy Koch up there with Hoffman and Rivera. The guy the A's traded Koch for (Keith Foulke) is better than Koch by any standard except the radar gun.

	06-02-2003 20:28									#26
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He likes the speed of the pitches, rather than their quality .

	09-02-2003 02:56									#27
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While I'm at it, best players not in the Hall of Fame (excluding active players, those not yet eligible, and those permanently ineligible):

C: Joe Torre
1B: D!ck Allen
2B: Joe Gordon
3B: Ron Santo
SS: Vern Stephens
LF: Minnie Minoso
CF: George van Haltren
RF: Dwight Evans

SP: Bert Blyleven, Jim Kaat, Bob Caruthers, Tommy John, Luis Tiant
RP: Goose Gossage

Manager: Billy Martin ()

Edit: correcting autocensor
Edit again: Forgot Eckersley isn't eligible yet.

Last edited by Vlad Antlerkov on 17-02-2003 at 03:20