07-02-2003 14:25									#31
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This is getting out of hand IMO...

	07-02-2003 19:29									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, I originally had abstain in but thought better of it.

Looks good donegeal.

	07-02-2003 23:36									#33
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This is good. Very brief but effective. I'm ambivolent on the "Senate making laws" part as it might tie us up with a growing bureaucracy as the months wear on. Maybe it'd be better if raised the bar on passage of laws to 2/3 majority.

--Togas

	08-02-2003 00:46									#34
	Suffering from ads?

I like the fact that thes latest drafts do not require senate approval for most individual actions (such as every single rush) It's important IMHO to allow flexibility in the councils actions if they feel something has happened that forces then to alter them. This is particularly true in regards to specific unit moves in the game, The settlers/units involved in the "land grab" portion" of the game are a case in point. The same also applies to SMC moves (this was mentioned in another thread also if I remember) Battles will be much more dynamic and fluid that in the SP game. We may have to make a sudden decision to retreat, etc.

	08-02-2003 03:26									#35
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donegeal, why do you use lotus?

I recommend Opera.

I'm posting the Constitution ratification poll. Let's get this show on the road, people.

	08-02-2003 04:35									#36
	Tired of ads?

Its the only way to connect to the internet at work. Work doesn't want us on so they disabled IE, but gave us Lotus as a mail server. They think us peions are to stupid to figure out how to connect with notes. Its fine with me. Let them think I'm dumb. I'll just keep using the web...

	08-02-2003 05:47									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That means that they underestimate you. Demand more pay! Demand worker rights!

Anyway, the formatting worked out well.

(had to post this. I was getting anxious around 490 posts, but now i have 500 )

Last edited by Thud on 08-02-2003 at 07:31

	08-02-2003 19:44									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Thud (had to post this. I was getting anxious around 490 posts, but now i have 500 )

Congratulations for your 500th post, and nice avatar. I guess we are going for a despotism. Aren't we?

	08-02-2003 19:51									#39
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No - it'll still be a democracy, but the officials have slightly more power than you're used to in these type of systems.

	08-02-2003 19:55									#40
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I was trying to joke with the avatar image BFM, I know which can of system will be. In fact I advocated by that kind of system

	08-02-2003 20:03									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sorry - didn't get that. According to my Avatar, we're going for Felinism.

	08-02-2003 22:01									#42
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AG! AG! AG! AG! AG!

Togas' first idea was fine. And what's with all this Senate nonsense?! I never understood it in the SP game. We all vote. Why can't a Consul propose a change? IMO this is once again far too stratified - Consuls who are above the Senators, who have one thing that the Consuls can't do as a compensation of sorts. No. Have the Consuls as the ones responsible for a decision to go through to the one/few people actually playing the game - they needn't make the decisions, just ensure they are made, and that everyone has had a chance to have a say/vote on the decision.

We certainly don't need this much detail early in the game!

	08-02-2003 22:31									#43
	Got spare money?

Whatever we need, it should be simple so that people like me who don’t have time to actually play the game or whose modems are too slow to make downloading practical don’t have to get bothered by voting on little things all the time, but do get to vote on the big things such as war or peace or revolution.

	08-02-2003 23:29									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Whatever we need, it should be simple so that people like me who don’t have time to actually play the game or whose modems are too slow to make downloading practical don’t have to get bothered by voting on little things all the time, but do get to vote on the big things such as war or peace or revolution.

Can you say "Switzerland"? Here in Geneva they voted to decide if an old museum building was or not distroyed to build a newer one in its place!

I hope no one from Switzerland is reading me

I'm with Pikesfan and MrWIA in this, which is at the same thing that Togas himself said. If the consuls can be elected by the people then we shouldn't be afraid about what they do or stop doing, because we can change them when "we"(= the majority of the team members, or at least the majority who votes) want. Otherwise we are disturbing their work. This doesn't stop the president from running a poll on a very important issue, like declaring war or revolution, as Pikesfan says.

	09-02-2003 18:02									#45
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa This doesn't stop the president from running a poll on a very important issue, like declaring war or revolution, as Pikesfan says.

It doesn't require him to do so either...

Thats why I suggest we require all ministers (incl.prez)
to submit official polls + discussions on our "long term planning", 'cause it's all the players who will do this dynamic planning, and the best plan should be chosen democratically.
Ok, and it would be a lot more fun for all of us.
I think the Constitution can cover this.


The turn player (prez) however, will then be free to do any necessary short term decisions...

	09-02-2003 18:17									#46
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To make you understand better why this is a neccessary requirement, I will provide these two options....


1.
Do we want a leadership who is just working everything out on theirselves, and who will get replaced by a bunch of inactive members if they do not perfom well?


2.
Or do we want a leadership who actively queries it's subjects
about imporant issues, so that we can all work as a team?



- I would go for option 2, and I also think we can utilize all of us experienced Apolytoners optimally that way... If a leadership does not follow option 2, it is IMO ready for replacement!
Cause such a leadership would not have faith in this team...

What do you think?

	09-02-2003 18:21									#47
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Let's make a poll ;-)

	10-02-2003 07:33									#48
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quote: This doesn't stop the president from running a poll on a very important issue, like declaring war or revolution, as Pikesfan says.

quote: It doesn't require him to do so either...

If the President does not poll on a very important issue like this, thats where the no-con vote comes in very handy. Its like an impeachment without all of the bureaucracy