05-02-2003 11:38									#1
	Turn 49, 1830 BC Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Writing at 100%, ready in 4-5 turns.
- 78 gold cash, -2 per turn.

Military:
- Gronk and settler go 7 onto mountain on their way to Gold Hill.
- Zonk, Slash, Crush, and new warrior in Hurricane fortify unless barbarians are spotted.

Economy:
- EotS hit by a second turn of disease.
- Check the food box for EotS and reshuffle laborers to work the right number of flood plains to grow back to size 3 next turn.
- Hurricane finishes warrior, starts spearman.
- Worker #1 finishes road, backs up 9 and starts irrigating the first roaded tile toward Bolderberg and Cyclone.
- Worker #3 finishes mine, starts road.

Diplomacy:
- Continue figuring out what we want to do regarding possibly involving Vox in the Great Library project.

	05-02-2003 17:16									#2
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Nathan, most likely you already did this, but if the governor would be off, but set to emphasize food (and not production), you won't need to reshuffle as automatically the fps will be selected for workers, and not the furs. It works very predictable, once you figure out how exactly it does...

DeepO

	05-02-2003 22:12									#3
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Hmm, why weren't the settler and the warrior moved along the road to the mountain last turn?, was it impossible for some reason? otherwise we could have saved a turn in city placement.

	05-02-2003 22:46									#4
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They couldn't have moved another tile. They landed in the tile 7 7 of EotS with 1/3 movement points left.

	05-02-2003 23:37									#5
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zeit, there's a river on that road, so they had to stop either where they are now, or 9 from there... it's the same distance towards the gold.

It's not until engineering (IIRC) that we can cross rivers without losing movement points.

DeepO

	06-02-2003 00:01									#6
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Regarding the last message we sent to Lux (to which they replied), shouldn't we have been more revealing and told them a little about our lands? Maybe not which luxuries we have, as these may turn out to be our bargaining chips, but a little about the geographical features perhaps.
IMHO, if we share information about ourselves with Lux, even information that is nearly useless to Lux, they will feel better about our relations.

Last edited by Shiber on 06-02-2003 at 01:46

	06-02-2003 00:39									#7
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Shiber, maybe repeat that in the comments thread just created. I don't think we need to reveal more, but you can always convince me

DeepO

	06-02-2003 02:46									#8
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Oh, of course, the river, you're right...

	06-02-2003 06:27									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Nathan, most likely you already did this, but if the governor would be off, but set to emphasize food (and not production), you won't need to reshuffle as automatically the fps will be selected for workers, and not the furs. It works very predictable, once you figure out how exactly it does...

The reason I haven't wanted to tinker with the governor settings is that it is sometimes useful to have laborers appear on forests the turn they first show up before moving them to another tile. Production for a new laborer takes effect the turn the new laborer shows up, but food does not, so having a laborer show up on a high-production tile before being moved provides, in effect, free extra production. I don't have the patience for the level of micromanagement needed to take advantage of that fact in SP - at least not without making mistakes - but in a game like this one, it seems worth it, at least as long as our number of cities remains small. Compared with the overall time invested in each turn, it's no big deal.

Nathan

	07-02-2003 06:45									#10
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Disease struck again, as expected. EotS is down to size 2, but ready to grow back to 3 next turn.

	07-02-2003 06:47									#11
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Team Scores:

85 (+1) Gathering Storm
95 (+2) Demogyptica
74 (+1) Glory of War
92 (+2) Role Play
71 (+1) Vox Controli
69 (+0) Lux Invicta
104 (+2) Legoland

	07-02-2003 06:47									#12
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That sux. How many turns of disease have we had?

	07-02-2003 06:55									#13
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Shots sent.

	07-02-2003 06:56									#14
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We've been hit by disease on two occasions, two turns each time. I really wish Firaxis didn't rig it so disease always lasts two turns! It's annoying enough in SP, but it's a lot worse in MP.

	07-02-2003 06:59									#15
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Turn sent.

	07-02-2003 07:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay We've been hit by disease on two occasions, two turns each time. I really wish Firaxis didn't rig it so disease always lasts two turns! It's annoying enough in SP, but it's a lot worse in MP.

Two settlers worth. Gad.

Have you ever been hit more than twice in one game? I have played a few games starting near fp's and usually don't get hit once.

	07-02-2003 21:23									#17
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We really have gotten some rotten luck with disease.

Get lucky with the settler...
Get unlucky with disease.

We live, and die, by the RNG.

I got some truely terrible RN rolls last night. For instance: elite swordsman attacks regular archer on flat ground. Flawless victory for the archer. Yeesh.

Just gotta deal with it, though.

-Arrian

	07-02-2003 22:21									#18
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dp.... again

	07-02-2003 22:21									#19
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Just another thought. Am I right in thinking that EotS will grow its borders in 14 turns? (I counted the screenshots, but there are more reliable methods then this)

If so, we could get Hurricane to size 11, instead of 10. I think, with the delays so far, that we might want to aim for that, adding in total 7 workers to Hurricane (hopefully a few from Vox).

BTW, the discussion about how to proceed with Vox has quieted down again, I hope we will be able to at least get a proposal out on which all agree by the end of this weekend...

DeepO

	07-02-2003 22:25									#20
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Zeit, another idea: maybe it's good to start keep a log of what diplo agreements are proposed, which are ratified by us, and which still need to get ratified by the other teams... I'm unsure of whether Vox has agreed to the border treaty, and if Legoland got the barb warning from us or not.

DeepO

	07-02-2003 22:26									#21
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And, while we're spamming the turn thread , do we want to let other teams know we've got hit by disease again?

DeepO

	07-02-2003 22:48									#22
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Wow, four consecutive posts by DeepO. I think that's a new world record.

In response to the actual content of your posts ( the fun never stops while I'm around ), we gave the tip to Legoland, but alas (or fortunately? I seem to be using a lot of emoticons today) it was too late - they already got surprise-attacked by barbs and had to poprush a defender. Mwhahaha!!!

Regarding disease, we should certainly not reveal our misfortune. I see nothing good coming out of this, and I doubt it would achieve anything but a little pity (if we're lucky) and a diplomatic message saying that they're sorry to hear about it (yeah, right).
Let them figure it out by themselves. With some luck, most will not notice, and others will think that we have built two workers.

	07-02-2003 23:03									#23
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That's the problem why I would like to tell them about disease: If they see us building 10 workers in a row, they might suspect more then if they think it's disease again...

DeepO

	07-02-2003 23:12									#24
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If we seem oversuccessful, then we're a threat. If we seem unlucky, then we're an easy kill.
No, my vote goes to retaining the shroud of mystery.

	07-02-2003 23:12									#25
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BTW, now that you mention it, I remember the legos... but it seemed we missed a team when I read the Lego's "We fought of barbs" message in the general forum. Did we tell the NDers? Again, I'm unsure... a summary thread for all deals would still be an asset, maybe with links to the discussion threads involved.

DeepO

	07-02-2003 23:14									#26
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Shiber, at this moment we're no easy kill, as all invasion troops have to be shipped. But we might seem oversuccesful if we use our capital as a workerpump for so long...

DeepO

	08-02-2003 00:07									#27
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Of course, I was using superlatives just to convey my message. Anyway, my point is that it's best to just not mention the disease. I'm not a psychologist, nor do I have extensive Civ MP experience, I just don't see how revealing that we were struck by disease could possibly help us. Shutting up still seems to me like the best option.

	08-02-2003 00:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO That's the problem why I would like to tell them about disease: If they see us building 10 workers in a row, they might suspect more then if they think it's disease again... DeepO

While I agree that the others could learn things from our capitals fluctuating population, I doubt that many are paying attention.

After all, are WE paying attentionto the others? I have'nt seen any threads on a teams capital, and charting its growth up and down to guestimate at the number of cities and workers.

	08-02-2003 02:29									#29
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You're absolutely right.
Let's not draw unnecessary attention to our sudden drop in population.

	08-02-2003 03:08									#30
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asleep, I tried so far to keep an eye on the cities, and I've been thinking on analysing Vox growth very precisely (can be done on the score, so the rest of the teams should be able to be inspected as well.) I haven't come around to it yet, but I'm pretty sure it would be possible to have a status report on all teams, stating the number of cities, workers, and the sizes and thus growth rates of cities. If I find time this weekend, I'll get to it, as it might shed some insight in the overall situation...

If you go over the F11 screenshots, you see quite easily the trends, where RPG and ND are faster to grow, and Vox is only standard. If you see our graph, it changes much faster, which means it's easier to follow. In 3 turns time, we went from 6 to 2 in EotS, people will think on how this can be true, but without pop-rushing, or too much forest chopping there is no other explanation as disease. Okay, a lot of teams will pick this up, as certainly we have nothing to gain to drop so low in size, my only fear is that they will see the amount of workers we're building (withouth Vox 7 in a row), and decide they need to have loads of workers into their wondercities as well.

Okay, I'm playing devil's advocate here a little, but maybe we could get some sympathy out of telling our sorrows. I'm pretty sure it was the only reason why Lego told us they needed to pop-rush a warrior to deal with barbs.

DeepO