06-02-2003 05:05									#31
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quote: The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

I suppose crushing all opposition in Europe for 15 years is considered a loss?

Napoleon came very close to winning Waterloo, especially considering the worthless Dutch allies of the British.

	06-02-2003 05:10									#32
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quote: More crap. Carthage lost 3, for starters.

Romans and Italians are not the same...

	06-02-2003 05:24									#33
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The utter and complete ignorance of ths man who wrote that long post is easy to see from his take of the Thirty Years War: France achieved most of its diplomatic objectives during that war and came out stronger than before.

But of course, rabid francophobia verging on rabid racism is appallingly common in the US today.

	06-02-2003 05:27									#34
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of course it is ludicrous! It is from a humor page for godsake!!

What did you think it was, a scholarly piece??

	06-02-2003 05:29									#35
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The sad thing is that many take it as given, even if it is from a humor page. Don't underesatimate the utter stupidity of many people.

	06-02-2003 05:55									#36
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Lol@Sten

Somebody posted it in the sdc5 suggestion thread a while back but its still entertaining.

http://www.strategypage.com in the funny section.

	06-02-2003 06:43									#37
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If a country were never to lose wars, it would have conquered the world.

And the French won the battle of Poitiers, stopping the Arabs from taking Western Europe.

Now the Celts, that's a nation that's lost every single war it fought. Arthur didn't change that, nor did William Wallace.

	06-02-2003 06:48									#38
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ravagon - strategypage is how I saw it too, though I'm sure being caught visiting that website could get me kicked out of San Fran. Don't tell anyone, please!


GePap - point taken. I will state for the record here that I love France, and all of the French people that I have met, and a relative used to be the Ambassador to France, so Go France!

	06-02-2003 06:55									#39
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quote: World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

Ouch!
...but true...

	06-02-2003 10:39									#40
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That is hilarious.

	06-02-2003 10:49									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: More crap. Carthage lost 3, for starters. Romans and Italians are not the same...

Papal states and Italians are not the same thing

	06-02-2003 10:59									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The sad thing is that many take it as given, even if it is from a humor page. Don't underesatimate the utter stupidity of many people.

Nobody ever accuse GePap of having anything resembling a sense of humor.... Geez some people

	06-02-2003 11:20									#43
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quote: Originally posted by axi And the French won the battle of Poitiers, stopping the Arabs from taking Western Europe.

Arabs in Western Europe?

SUPPLY LINES!

	06-02-2003 13:11									#44
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the muslims were established in spain then.

it is conceavable that they'd take A PART of france, but not all of it.

In any case, they wouldn't be able to hold it for long.

	06-02-2003 13:46									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel the muslims were established in spain then. it is conceavable that they'd take A PART of france, but not all of it. In any case, they wouldn't be able to hold it for long.

It's still going across the Mediterranean, unless it was entirely Spanish Arabs who were attacking. Supply lines would still be a problem.

	06-02-2003 13:57									#46
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they could cross the med, and then be supplied from Spain, to cross the mountains into france.

	06-02-2003 14:58									#47
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Actually, the Arabs did conquer part of France - it was basically the Western part of the strip of France bordering the Mediterranean.

quote: SUPPLY LINES!

Supply lines?!?!? The Arab forces were small numbers (by any reasonably modern standard) of light cavalry. What do these armies need supplied? Do you think horses run on petroleum?

	06-02-2003 20:33									#48
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quote: And the French won the battle of Poitiers, stopping the Arabs from taking Western Europe

Most over-rated battle EVER, the Arabs were a relatively small raiding force not anything resembling a large conquering army.

	06-02-2003 20:37									#49
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I think it strengthened Charles Martel's rule domestically and therefore insured that the Arabs would never be able to successfully invade France.

	06-02-2003 20:39									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Most over-rated battle EVER, the Arabs were a relatively small raiding force not anything resembling a large conquering army.

I dunno, the amount written about US civil war seems to be out of all proportion to their significance

	06-02-2003 20:51									#51
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quote: Do you think horses run on petroleum?

Now there is an interesting thought .

Sten:

And yes, Romans are not Italians. Italians are the mix of mainly Roman and Gothic blood, but more Goth than Roman.

	06-02-2003 20:59									#52
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quote: I dunno, the amount written about US civil war seems to be out of all proportion to their significance

Yeah, but at least there were real armies there

quote: Italians are the mix of mainly Roman and Gothic blood, but more Goth than Roman.

Not really, the Goth invading armies were too small to have that much effect on Italian genetics, I'd say that there's more Greek, Semitic and Lombard blood in modern Italians than Goth.

	06-02-2003 21:12									#53
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Actually the Goths did have a large effect on Italian genetics, especially the higher ups (which for all intents and purposes really matter ).

The Lombards also have a substantial role, but they are influenced heavily by Goths as well.

	07-02-2003 02:47									#54
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quote: And yes, Romans are not Italians. Italians are the mix of mainly Roman and Gothic blood, but more Goth than Roman.

Thanks for taking care of business for me, Imran.

	07-02-2003 03:28									#55
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quote: Supply lines?!?!? The Arab forces were small numbers (by any reasonably modern standard) of light cavalry. What do these armies need supplied? Do you think horses run on petroleum?

they were small numbers? then what's all the fuss about?

	07-02-2003 04:00									#56
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*blatantly obvious straight line*

IT'S A FRENCH MILITARY VICTORY!

	07-02-2003 04:05									#57
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quote: they were small numbers? then what's all the fuss about?

In general, medieval armies had been rather small. Part of it is due to the development of the heavy cavalry as the main element in a battle after the Latifunda system institutionalized serfdom and insured a strong aristocracy, the barbarian invasions necessitated an effective tool against light cavalry (heavy cavalry of course), and technological innovations made heavy cavalry much more powerful (stirrup, etc.). And of course heavy cavalry requires a lot of resources on the part of the nobility, so the the central government by nature can't field effective infantry forces.

Also, the Roman world was just hit by a bubonic plague epidemic. This guaranteed the Arab conquests in Persia, the East Roman Empire, North Africa, and of course Spain, despite the relatively small number of invaders.

	07-02-2003 04:09									#58
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wait a sec, what year are we talking about, again?

	07-02-2003 04:13									#59
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Poitiers was ~early 8th century IIRC. But I'm describing the Arab conquests in general.

	07-02-2003 04:23									#60
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quote: Also, the Roman world was just hit by a bubonic plague epidemic. This guaranteed the Arab conquests in Persia, the East Roman Empire, North Africa, and of course Spain, despite the relatively small number of invaders.

Also the minor and short-lived disagreements that Byzantium had with the Sassanids contributed to this somewhat...