05-02-2003 20:46									#1
	My friend is going to Iraq as a human shield Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have mixed feelings. Part of me is angry that he would do something so stupid , and part of me is sad because I know he could possibly be killed.

He always was a wide-eyed idealist. I just hope it doesn't get him killed. He really is a nice guy, and I can believe he is doing something so idiotic.

Here is a message from him that was posted on the humanshields website:

"Anyone with any loved ones, children, parents, friends.
Anyone with a conscience must surely wonder ‘what’s going on?’
This simply must not be allowed to continue in our lifetimes.
‘Practise random kindness and senseless acts of beauty’.
Good luck to us all and everyone concerned."

Richard Trutwein, 30, London, UK


I think he's really gone off the deep end with these crazy human shield people...

	05-02-2003 20:50									#2
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Sorry to hear it, Cal.

	05-02-2003 20:52									#3
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Me too. I really hope he will be ok.

	05-02-2003 20:56									#4
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I don't know what's more sad. People sacrificing themselves as human shields, or the fact that the US wouldn't even blink when deciding to drop bombs on them?

I can only hope for your friends safety Cal.

	05-02-2003 21:00									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't know what's more sad. People sacrificing themselves as human shields, or the fact that the US wouldn't even blink when deciding to drop bombs on them?

I don't think the US specifically intends to drop bombs on civilians, but of course all wars have casualties. I think it's better in the long run for the people of Iraq if the US takes out Saddam.

quote: I can only hope for your friends safety Cal.

Me too.

	05-02-2003 21:07									#6
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quote: I don't think the US specifically intends to drop bombs on civilians, but of course all wars have casualties. I think it's better in the long run for the people of Iraq if the US takes out Saddam.

*cough* Dresden *cough* Hiroshima *cough* Nagasaki...

and with all "blah blah the American military technology is so advanced" crap, I don't except ineptness or ignorance as an excuse for civilian deaths.

	05-02-2003 21:09									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Sava *cough* Dresden *cough* Hiroshima *cough* Nagasaki...

Those all happened long ago. War was fought differently then.

quote: and with all "blah blah the American military technology is so advanced" crap, I don't except ineptness or ignorance as an excuse for civilian deaths.

It's simply not possible to have a war without civilian deaths. Does this mean you are opposed to war under any circumstances?

	05-02-2003 21:12									#8
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Human shield: 5 hitpoints

Bunker-buster: 65,000 firepower

	05-02-2003 21:18									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba Human shield: 5 hitpoints Bunker-buster: 65,000 firepower

We're talking about someone's friend here. Try to have a little tact.

Cali, have people tried to convince him not to go? I mean, I may be opposed to what the U.S. is planning to do there, but I would still do everything I could to talk someone I knew out of going. There's little point in going there to put one's self in harms way deliberately.

	05-02-2003 21:20									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba Human shield: 5 hitpoints Bunker-buster: 65,000 firepower

that was pretty sick

	05-02-2003 21:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Cali, have people tried to convince him not to go? I mean, I may be opposed to what the U.S. is planning to do there, but I would still do everything I could to talk someone I knew out of going. There's little point in going there to put one's self in harms way deliberately.

I would talk him out of it if I could, but unfortunately I have no direct way of communicating with him at the moment. He moves around a lot, so he rarely has a permanent address, and he doesn't use email. He's a real hippie.

Besides, I really don't think there is anything I could do to talk him out of it. He can be stubborn.

	05-02-2003 21:23									#12
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the human shield people - are they going to "protect" Iraqi military targets, or are they just going to stay in civilian areas?

Killed Western human shields would be great for Iraqi propaganda methinks

	05-02-2003 21:24									#13
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Boris-
Also, I got the email informing me of this from his ex, who seems to support this.

I don't think there is anyone who he associates with that would try to talk him out of it.

	05-02-2003 21:25									#14
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hope he's not hurt, Cali.

	05-02-2003 21:27									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf the human shield people - are they going to "protect" Iraqi military targets, or are they just going to stay in civilian areas?

I imagine they would stay in civilian areas, but who's to say Saddam's thugs won't force them into their military areas in an attempt to stop the US from attacking?

This is so insane.

quote: Killed Western human shields would be great for Iraqi propaganda methinks

Yep.

	05-02-2003 21:28									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel hope he's not hurt, Cali.

Thanks, me too.

	05-02-2003 21:32									#17
	Re: My friend is going to Iraq as a human shield Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I think he's really gone off the deep end with these crazy human shield people...

He is right, at the wrong time.
It's everybody else who have "gone off the deep end"

	05-02-2003 21:43									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I imagine they would stay in civilian areas, but who's to say Saddam's thugs won't force them into their military areas in an attempt to stop the US from attacking?

Yeah, that's exactly the thing--even a hippie should realize Saddam is a ruthless dictator who would use the Westerners cynically.

	05-02-2003 21:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Yeah, that's exactly the thing--even a hippie should realize Saddam is a ruthless dictator who would use the Westerners cynically.

These people don't seem to understand the way the world works. I just hope it doesn't cost my friend his life.

	05-02-2003 21:49									#20
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Wait a minute, hold the phone, time out.

"I mean, I may be opposed to what the U.S. is planning to do there,"

but,

"Yeah, that's exactly the thing--even a hippie should realize Saddam is a ruthless dictator who would use the Westerners cynically."



Well, all righty then.

	05-02-2003 21:51									#21
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These people are not going to make a difference, as isolated idealism is useless in the current situation, sadly....

	05-02-2003 21:53									#22
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Beside the fact that going to Iraq as a human shield indirectly means support for Saddam it's not necissary. The Iraqi regime will probably do their best to gather up a reasonable number of forced human shields. The sad part is that people would make a big deal if they actually bombed one of those that goes there out of their own free will while Iraqi civilian deaths will be not much more than statistics.

	05-02-2003 22:14									#23
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Wait a minute, hold the phone, time out. "I mean, I may be opposed to what the U.S. is planning to do there," but, "Yeah, that's exactly the thing--even a hippie should realize Saddam is a ruthless dictator who would use the Westerners cynically." Well, all righty then.

How many times do we have to explain it to you that opposition to the current U.S. policy isn't because we think Saddam is a great guy?