06-02-2003 07:51									#31
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I'm very disappointed. Where's the smoking gun everyone has been saying the gov't has?

Regardless of what Saddam has or has not done, Shrub et al. have yet to show they have the balls to deal with Iraq after Gulf War II in the interests of liberty and justice.

	06-02-2003 07:54									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'm very disappointed. Where's the smoking gun everyone has been saying the gov't has?

Powell has spent the past week shouting from the roof tops that he wasn't going to present a smoking gun. You might have to wait a bit longer if you actually care about a Stevenson type moment.

	06-02-2003 08:00									#33
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I thought the presentation was effective. It didn't convince anybody right off, but after it sinks in, I think it will have the desired impact.

It was interesting how Powell spent a lot of time on the terrorist links in Russia and France.

Also, he probably turned the tide on the aluminum tubes issue. He was very specific there.

	06-02-2003 08:02									#34
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But I want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

	06-02-2003 08:08									#35
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It didn't convince me at all, but then again I'm believer from the start, so I don't need any convincing .

Powell did a good job considering what tools he had available. I really don't put lots of value to satellite pictures. So much to be interpreted. Intercepted calls were good though.

I don't know if Iraq has WMD or not, personally I'm just for removing Saddam, that's enough of an excuse for me. But, it did point out that Iraq has been violating resolutions systematically.

I agree with DanS, I don't think it will kick in right away, but in coming days, a week or few, it will do the job.

	06-02-2003 08:09									#36
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And yes, Powell didn't promise smoking guns.. correct.

	06-02-2003 08:11									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo But I want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

That's what the smart bomb videos on CNN are going to be for.

	06-02-2003 08:20									#38
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YES! I just ordered CNN.. yeah, I'm kind of sicko, but I like the way they do news, it's kind of entertaining compared to our super minimalistic grim type of depressing news which are about 3 minutes long showing statistic 'people dead here and there and everywhere' 'this just in, not so breaking news, we suck butts'. I'm getting all the coverage from this coming war, so I don't always have to read it from the internet, plus I have a sadly boring life

(adult channel also included.. though it's supposed to be erotic channel.. not porn.. blaahh.)

	06-02-2003 08:24									#39
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Certainly some serious allegations were raised, but when we're talking about war, I personally need some more compelling reasons before I think we should start pouring American missiles on some other country.

So why the rush?

Many are asking what's so terrible about giving the inspectors more time. Powell gave us not one indication that the Iraqis are planning imminent use of WMD, and it sure seems unlikely that they would initiate military action with UN inspectors and international press gamboling about the nation.

The answer, of course, is that the American military cannot wait much longer before the weather in the Iraqi desert starts getting mighty hot, which will complicate any military action, especially if US forces must wear special suits.

I'm afraid the latter consideration is what is driving Bush.

	06-02-2003 08:24									#40
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already convinced.

By march saddam won't be in bagdad.

Without saddam no money will be going to incurage the palistinians from suicied bombing and thereby decreasing hostilities and allowing legit peace talks to take place.

	06-02-2003 09:49									#41
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Even if the Iraq mass destruction weapons have. This is not a reason for war.
Nobody makes war against the USA for this reason but they have also mass destruction stuff.
This is a question of the point of view.
Is the USA or the Iraq "bad".


(Excuse my english... 6:00 o'clock.)

	06-02-2003 10:07									#42
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Ahh... I forgot to say what I voted for.
"No, I want convinced, and it didnt sway me."

	06-02-2003 10:08									#43
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Oh yay. we can give grainy photos of buildlings. and audio tapes. yay.

Sigh. I really want to be convinced for this war, bgut the evidence is lackluster. Saddam needs to be removed, but we need a casus belli. And were not getting it....

	06-02-2003 10:13									#44
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Well I totally convinced that 1441 was violated. Though I'm not exactly sure of what our course of action should be right now. Basically I'm on the fence, but more in favor of war than I've ever been.

	06-02-2003 10:26									#45
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It would have been better for all if the US had attacked Iraq right away, without all this theater at the UN.

	06-02-2003 10:30									#46
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The aluminum tubes and magnets show that Iraq is still trying to develop nuclear weapons, in direct contradiction of Security Council resolutions. The wireless intercepts are clear evidence of violation of 1441. The connection between Al Queda and Iraq has been proven (in spite of some on this board saying that was impossible due to philosophical differences), and damn scary.

Take him down now.

	06-02-2003 10:45									#47
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Sorry, almost nothing will convince me except common sense. Of course Saddam has WMD, I sure would if I lived in that part of the world. But I don't trust my own government either, and I sure don't trust alleged radio transcripts/recordings or satellite photos. A few months after the Gulf War, the St Petersburg Times exposed the lie that satellite photos revealed Iraqis massing on the border with Saudi Arabia for a second invasion. We were lied to then, so why would the GOP/Dems discover morality now? The Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter testified before Congress that she saw babies being pulled from incubators by the Iraqis, but her identity was kept from the American public. Why? Because those of us with brains might wonder what she was doing in Kuwait after the invasion. Tom Lantos (D-Cal) chaired the hearing in which she testified and was later asked why he didn't want us to know who she was and he said he didn't see how her identity was relevant. This guy is a ******* lawyer! He didn't know the true identity of a witness was relevant? BS!!! LIARS!!!

	06-02-2003 10:54									#48
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quote: This guy is a ******* lawyer! He didn't know the true identity of a witness was relevant?

Um.... why is it relevant to tell the whole world who this person was? I don't get what this has to do with him being a lawyer. This wasn't a trial.

	06-02-2003 11:19									#49
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I'm not convinced at all. They show a satellite pic of a truck, and they say it's a portable weapons lab...

I wonder what kind of manufacturing facilities for wepunsofmuhdstuchun can the american officials find in this picture...

Attachment: home1.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	06-02-2003 11:29									#50
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aaglo, you live in a tree?

	06-02-2003 11:31									#51
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aaglo, but I think that wasn't too bad. It's hard to give evidence proving these trucks. I remember reading about these trucks months ago when some Iraqi scientist who fled to Europe or the US told about them. Yes, it could be strategy all the way, but then it was a good game. He told about those trucks, and that he had actually worked in one.

	06-02-2003 11:34									#52
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quote: Um.... why is it relevant to tell the whole world who this person was? I don't get what this has to do with him being a lawyer. This wasn't a trial.

A high government official from a ruthless, authoritarian state would never manipulate his daughter into lying to save his government's ass.

	06-02-2003 11:48									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Nevs23 Even if the Iraq mass destruction weapons have. This is not a reason for war. Nobody makes war against the USA for this reason but they have also mass destruction stuff. This is a question of the point of view. Is the USA or the Iraq "bad". (Excuse my english... 6:00 o'clock.)

Not this arguement again...

	06-02-2003 11:49									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka aaglo, you live in a tree?

Very interesting thread so far. Got to see how a lot of people stand now on this very important issue of Iraq.

	06-02-2003 12:01									#55
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo I'm not convinced at all. They show a satellite pic of a truck, and they say it's a portable weapons lab... I wonder what kind of manufacturing facilities for wepunsofmuhdstuchun can the american officials find in this picture...

Well, it looks like two large oil storage tanks along with a smaller one, surrounded by containment dykes. I first thought the two tall thin structures were distillation columns, but I'm coming to believe they're just smoke stacks. The blocky building to the right definately looks like an enclosed reactor building, while the low broad building may house labs and offices, perhaps warehouse space. I'm not sure whether the horizontal structure crossing the highway is a bridge, an elevated pipeline, or both, but it appears to empty into some kind of...sludge pond?

So, I'll guess it's a petrochemical plant.

How'd I do?

	06-02-2003 12:13									#56
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they didnt prove that iraq is a direct threat to america...and thats what i think really matters.

	06-02-2003 12:20									#57
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They're enough of a threat providing training and materiel to Al Queda.

	06-02-2003 12:33									#58
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prove it mad monk

	06-02-2003 12:37									#59
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Powell handed you the relevent connections.

Mob bosses have been convicted on less.

	06-02-2003 12:44									#60
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no he didnt. first off the relevant connections are at odds with each other. OBL doesnt like saddam and the northern terrorist group is out of the control of saddam hussein and even oposes him. all he has is circumstantial evidence which doesnt even make sense.

if thats good enough for you perhaps youd like to move to illinois and convict a lot of black men?