06-02-2003 05:29									#1
	Is it wise to bite the hand that feeds you? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Annan pitches aid for North Korea UNITED NATIONS - Secretary-General Kofi Annan appealed for funds Monday (Tuesday in Manaila) to "avert a major humanitarian crisis" in North Korea and create better conditions to peacefully resolve the nuclear standoff. Annan's urgent appeal followed talks with his personal envoy, Maurice Strong, who visited North Korea last month and told the secretary-general that desperately needed food and medicine will soon be unavailable. After his visit, Strong warned that the pipeline of food and medicine that 6 to 8 million North Koreans depended on was drying up and there was "an urgent need to keep that pipeline flowing." North Korea has been relying on outside aid since the mid-1990s to help feed its 22 million people. For the first quarter of the year, Strong said, the World Food Program urgently needs 97,000 tons of food aid. For the rest of the year, North Korea will need some $250 million in aid, but the world community has put forth just $10 million, he said. U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said Monday that a review by top U.N. experts confirmed Strong's assessment that exceptional action is needed because of the humanitarian situation facing the country. "To prevent an impending tragedy, the secretary-general has decided to seek additional donor support to ensure, at least for the next several months, that the humanitarian pipeline ... does not dry up," Eckhard said. "This would avert a major humanitarian crisis and would also create conditions more conducive to the peaceful resolution of the current political standoff," he said. The United States has said it would consider food and other economic aid if North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. North Korea has rejected the offer as a precondition for talks and has said the United States is insincere. The standoff began in October, when U.S. officials said North Korea had admitted having a nuclear weapons program in violation of a 1994 agreement. Washington and its allies suspended oil shipments to North Korea, which in turn expelled U.N. nuclear inspectors, withdrew from a global nuclear arms control treaty and said it would reactivate its main nuclear complex. That raised fears it will start to develop nuclear weapons. North Korea accuses the United States of escalating the standoff as a pretext to invade the country. Washington insists it wants a peaceful solution to the crisis.

	06-02-2003 05:35									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Iraq-NK, either way, things are NOT looking good.

The answer to the question is: "Only if you can eat the rest of the arm too".

	06-02-2003 05:41									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Earlier in the crisis the US stated that it would not use humanitarian aid as a weapon. Obviously we have gone back on that word.

What use is it starving the people of N.Korea? The men in the army and government will eat fine, and a people starving are of no use to revolt. But hey, we can always blame it on the North Korean government!

(everyone is responsible for their own choices: the government of North Korea decides to begin new banned programs, but we decided to cut food aid for the N.Korea population cause of it. It isn't cause and effect, its two independent choices made by two different groups).

	06-02-2003 05:47									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

NK is starting to piss me off. We are being embarrased and blackmailed by a small insignificant country. Screw 'em. Let them figure it out. They want help? Then they better play ball and be humble.

	06-02-2003 05:50									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The notion that person=government is the underlying reasoning for all terrorist attacks and other inhumanities. The people of North Korea do not equal the government of Kim Yong Il, and I fail to see how doing our part to let them starve serves any purpose at all.

	06-02-2003 05:55									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: NK is starting to piss me off. We are being embarrased and blackmailed by a small insignificant country.

A nuclear power should never be treated as insignificant, I think.

I agree with GePap totally, though. Cutting off food aid will do nothing to harm the army or the government, only the people.

	06-02-2003 06:11									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The army is made up of the people. If the government cant feed the armies families, the army will get pissed.

	06-02-2003 06:21									#8
	Put an end to popups!

As a general rule, it is not wise to bite the hand that feeds you. I wonder whether it's wise to keep feeding the dog that bites you.

One thing to note is that this only has partially to do with the US. If it were only a US reaction against the nukes, other people would be lining up to help out NK. Countries like China, Russia, SK, and Japan.

Instead, China returns starving people to NK. SK doesn't ask China to send them these starving people so that they can be taken care of in SK. Japan, a generous giver of funds in other contexts, gives not a farthing in this instance.

All this said, it is proper for Annan to try to fill out the fund.

	06-02-2003 06:23									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LoA: not really. Koreans are no different form anyone else. As long as you and your family gets fed, everyone else can rot, and you certainly won't rock the system: otherwise you are the one who might go hungry.

No, the theory behind such inhumanity is that either a) the Kim Yong Il government will, for the good of its people change its ways (highly unlikely) of b) the starving masses will demand change so that they won't starve anyomre (as unlikely since starving people can't really fight or protest, or eventually, even breath).

	06-02-2003 06:25									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

GePap: People in danger of starvation can flee NK, as they have done and are doing. Then it ends up being China's humanitarian and political problem.

Last edited by DanS on 06-02-2003 at 06:31

	06-02-2003 06:26									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

DanS is correct: the US is not alone in doing nothing to help the starving people of N.korea.

The DPRK already went throught a terrible famine in the early 90's. I fail to see how letting a second one happen will bring about anymore political change than the previous one.

	06-02-2003 06:34									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So then what do we do?

	06-02-2003 06:39									#13
	Suffering from ads?

Let the Chinese handle it.

	06-02-2003 06:54									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Make our contribution to the fund, and move on. Hope others do as well.

	06-02-2003 07:07									#15
	Support Apolyton

Pouring money into a fund like this won't solve the longterm problems though. It's at times like this the desire to be heroes gets strong. If only we could liberate those poor people without too much suffering. . .

Unfortunately that's not a possibility. I'm wondering though, when did it ever become the responsibility of the United States to feed nations hostile to us? And why aren't the enlightened powers of Europe taking the leading role in this?

EDIT: fixed typo

	06-02-2003 08:25									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ever see the footage of the Yugoslavian population storming the Parliment building?

Or the guys tearing down the wall in Berlin?

Or the pullout of U.S. forces in Vietnam due to protests back home.

Change happens. Let em starve. It's their fault indirectly that they are ruled by a despot.

Disclaimer: I hate to see people starve, but I hate it even more when millions of dollars of food is sent somewhere and hungry people don't get to eat it.

	06-02-2003 11:37									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The United States and other nations, prior to the latest flare-up with North Korea, were fairly generous with food aid. Yet the general population of NK continued to suffer with less-than-adequate amounts of food while the NK military and political elite did better in that department.

The last time I checked, NK prevented U.N. personnel from tracking where the food went to after a certain point. Unless that has changed, I would be very curious as to the food's final destination and, IMHO, it's probably in the mouths of the NK military and political elite. The general population got the leftovers, and now that the crisis has affected that, they're the first to suffer.

All along that food should have been going to those who were starving, not to those who sit in the military and political spires towering over the land.

NK is playing the world like a violin.

Gatekeeper