07-02-2003 04:44									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dinamarth How is it even possible to make something worse than this part, while still using English?

Ok, when I wrote that post I was only starting on page 2, I see it gets much worse later.

	07-02-2003 05:19									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by viciouscycle The combat information was laughable. How about getting into a skirmish with some ships that have shields and armor and weapons?

Dan's had the game for several weeks now, how come the biggest battles he's had is 1 scout?

	07-02-2003 05:27									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

because he played 1 game of it, for only 80 or so turns.

its possible that they didnt give it to him, they only let him play it for a couple hours...or something

	07-02-2003 05:27									#34
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Are you kidding? Y'all didn't hear?

The combat system was causing the biggest bugs. So they removed the ability to have more than one ship in combat, and only one of the two ships (picked randomly) will have the use of it's weapons, armor, and sensors.

This makes the AI have a fighting chance, as half the time the player does not actually get to fight.

In addition, all ships must blockade planets - even if they're colony ships.

Seriously...that's like playing Civ and never building anything more than a 'warrior' unit, and then complaining when an archer takes you out. Or even better, a cavalry unit, since you might not get to see it coming. C'mon, man, while I appreciate the info out of the game and all, this was the combat experience? No ground combat even? Sigh...

I get the impression that DanQ didn't really like this game. It's sounding more and more like he's just going through the motions about how it played, talking about the various details that bore him (and by extension, us), and not bothering to check anything out - because it doesn't matter to him. That's a scary thought, IMO - DanQ not liking the game bodes ill for others liking it.

And for the couple of you that read my 'AAR' - thanks for the nice words. I was thinking of doing a couple for the other previews along those lines.

	07-02-2003 05:30									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Personally, I dont care if Dan didnt like it

There are plenty of people with much more exciting writing styles that love it and tell us about it all the time...as much as they are allowed to.

Its quite possible that this game just isnt Dan's type, and that would explain why he hasnt played it much.

	07-02-2003 06:23									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by kalbear "With our military might, I'd like to see them try and declare war on us! Nothing can defeat the Apolytonian Space Ship Invincible!" "Sir, this is the ship Intangible...."

Those have to be the funniest lines in the whole thing - i nearly fell off my chair laughing when i read that. Has to be in context though for the full impact.

	07-02-2003 07:16									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The U.S.S. Intangible. (Actually for Apolyton you would substitute the U with the A but this is a family show...)

I love it!

To be joined later by her sister ships the Inflammable, the Inscrutable, the Incapable, and the Inoperable.

	07-02-2003 07:18									#38
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I dont know if anyone knew it or not. But I just learned about MOO3 2 days after it went gold or something.. maybe one day after. (I really only get into games a like this... well only after that fiasco of a game Civ3 came out. But thats another story) Anyway, I'm don't know like all the 'inside' stuff and assume the game is going to be good. I guess you can say that i have the best situation, since I've never played MOO, or MOO2, so whatever Moo3 is like, its going to be good in my perspective since I cant compare it to its predessors. Plus I havent played it vicariously over and over and over like you guys hav ethrough AARs and stuff... I just can't see why you guys always want to ruin your games by scrutinizing over every detail 2 years before the game is even done...

Anyway, I was wondering what the names of those races where in the Concept art? Mostly Concept Art #6. It looks like a cat/kangaroo. Also, i'd like to know what space ships belong to which race. It would be nice if someone told me so I can start putting names to faces and names to architecture type. I mean, all those fake sci-fi names are a little confusing if you dont know what the race looks like.... like when I say Klingon, we all think of like Warf. But what I say Pakled... well, what race was that? (You got to be a pretty big Trekkie to know about the Pakled)

Anyway. Thanks. I really enjoyed all these 'In House' Reviews since I'm so new to Moo3 enviroment. I look foward to part 6 Dan Q.

	07-02-2003 07:46									#39
	Got spare money?

My best guess is that concept art #6 is a Mrrshan.

	07-02-2003 07:47									#40
	Remove this text

Well, To_Serve_Man, welcome to the world of Moo3

most of us havent played it yet, only the betatesters, but we are all really looking forward to it.

To get loads of info about the game, I recommend registering for the official moo3 forums:

http://www.ina-community.com/forums...?s=&forumid=224

and then reading the following threads, which contain the thoughts of the betatesters, game summaries, and lots of questions answered by the betatesters:

http://www.ina-community.com/forums...threadid=251246

for info, and

http://www.ina-community.com/forums...threadid=239742

for the game reports

The game reports are also on this forum in the AARs thread, posted by Roland the Mad, and also on Orion Outpost at moo3outpost.tk in the "reports" section

The game looks to be quite amazing, and the evidence of that is how much the betatesters love it, and how much time they spend answering our questions and writing up stories about their games. People that dont care for a game dont do stuff like that

a tip for the IGMOO boards: every question ahs been asked there 1000 times, and every complaint made 10000 times. Thus, people often get annoyed at newbies who ask the same questions or make the smae complaints. Dont let that throw you. Read the threads I pointed too, and then you should know enough not to ask questions that will get you flamed. And generally if you dont make complaints about moo3, people wont flame you.

	07-02-2003 08:07									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Alexfrog Its quite possible that this game just isnt Dan's type, and that would explain why he hasnt played it much.

I have to agree. If someone liked the game, and had it for this long, I'd think at least several games from start to finish (including some real nice defeats) would have transpired.

Ah well, I have hopes for the Penny-Arcade guys and others...

-P

	07-02-2003 10:35									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Alexfrog because he played 1 game of it, for only 80 or so turns. its possible that they didnt give it to him, they only let him play it for a couple hours...or something

I meant more 'why didn't he play at least one full game before writting a preview?' rather than 'how come in Dan's long gaming sesson in which collected many useful facts did he only ever fight one battle'.

Hey, I saw a poster about Homeworld 2, who wants me to write a preview on it?

	07-02-2003 13:29									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Kalbear...
your BAR (Before Action Review) was hilarious, though I am not sure what 'action' took place...

About this 5th sequel, I more and more believe Dan Q played 80 turns, wrote his paper during a whole night, cut it in 6 parts and made copy/pastes every night. And then never saw it again: they have taken the CD's away from him for sure... (some of you figured that out long ago)

But he is a civ fan, so once he is able to, he'll play the game again... Dan Q, have you received a boxed copy like the other sites? Are you making a full review at the moment?

	07-02-2003 14:49									#44
	Full PM-box? Change here!

To: To_Serve_Man

*Note* This will be one long post, make sure you have a comfortable chair while reading this.

Check out these screenshots of the 15 playable races in the game. There are actually 16 races you can play as, but the 16th race (Ithkul) are unknown to us. IG/QS has been keeping them a secret, we only know a few tid bits here and there about them.

http://apolyton.net/moo3/preview/part1_screenshots.php

There is another race, but you can't play as them. They are the "New Orions" (refered to as "NO" as short). They control the Orion Senate, which is made up of the NO, and X amount of other races. You can pick if you want to start a game in the Senate or not, or you can have it random if you can't decide. Pending how many Computer players you want in the game, some of them will be in the Senate and some won't.

If you start in the Senate, you have the opportunity to meet other races right from the start. This is of course an advantage, because this can lead to Technology swapping, trading agreements, research agreements and etc etc. The disadvantages is that you start near the core of the galaxy with the other Senate races, so expansion can be limited. Also, this can lead to early espionage/sabotage tactics and eventually war.

If you don't start in the Senate, then you can easily expand since you won't start as near to the core of the galaxy. Also, you won't have any contact with the races from the start. You will have to "scout" around to meet a race. This is of course good and bad, you can expand without worrying about other races, but then you can't set up early trade pacts and or research aggreements.

What can you do in the Orion Senate?

You can propose Bills and have the races vote on it, if its in favour then it will pass, if not then the Bill has been rejected. So you can propose a Bill that bans the use of Nuclear weapons, if the Bill passes, then it becomes a law. Once its a law, you cannot use Nuclear weapons. Well actually you can if YOU want to, but if you do then that will be breaking the "law" and the Orion Senate members will most likely declare war on you, or try to kick you out the Senate by proposing a Bill themselves. You can even propose to add a race to the Senate, if that passes then that new race will become a member of the Senate. Early in the game though, the NO have a huge amount of votes. So, say all of the Senate races agree to a certain Bill and the NO vote "Nay" then it will not pass. Don't worry though, as your empire becomes bigger, you get more votes. Also, the NO have almost a "no care" attitude, so its not like they will vote "Nay" all the time.

About The New Orions

The NO are a race that do have ships and advanced tech, so fighting them early on is a big mistake. I'm not sure how many systems they have, they might only have the Orion system but I'm not sure. You can declare war on the NO, or try to steal their technology with your spies if you want to. But for the most part, I heard that its best to leave them alone (until maybe you have advanced enough tech and a lot of ships to take them on ).

Magnate Races

Besides the 16 playable races and the unplayable NO, there are Magnate races. Some of these races are actually from previous MoO's (MoO1 and MoO2), and of course there are races that we don't know about yet. Anway, these races inhabit certain planets. They don't build ships, they don't expand and you can't set up trade or non aggression pacts with them. Instead you can colonize the world that they inhabit, which they will become a part of your empire.

Whats the point of that you ask? Well, magnate races offer bonuses in certain fields. Like espionage, and ground troop abilities. So say that your race aren't good warriors but you have a magnate race that are excellent warriors. You can make troop transports filled with warriors from the magnate race to fight ground combat. Or say that your race isn't tolerant to a certain planet type, but you have a magnate race that can tolerate that planet. Then make a colony ship with that magnate race to colonize that planet.

Hopefully this wasn't a boring read for you , and hopefully I made everything easy to understand. Expect part 2 by next Thursday...lol I'm just kidding.

	07-02-2003 17:10									#45
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Alexfrog a tip for the IGMOO boards: every question ahs been asked there 1000 times, and every complaint made 10000 times. Thus, people often get annoyed at newbies who ask the same questions or make the smae complaints. Dont let that throw you. Read the threads I pointed too, and then you should know enough not to ask questions that will get you flamed. And generally if you dont make complaints about moo3, people wont flame you.

Also, don't suggest things that have been suggested a thousand times before. Look what we did to utilae.

	07-02-2003 17:24									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't really care if dan liked moo or not.

If you are going to write a 30+ page description of a game, you should have played it.

I can't figure out why he would want to write a massive preview like that, just post a bunch of screen shots, scan a few pages of the manual and call it a day.

its really arrogant, and unfair to your readers.

	07-02-2003 18:41									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

it's almost as if the whole thing is some massive inside joke, and we are the unwitting butts thereof.

there was considerable improvement in #4, then this.

I just don't understand. Hey Dan, when the game finally ships, will you let us in on why you did the preview the way you did?

	07-02-2003 19:19									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Mr.Moustache Hopefully this wasn't a boring read for you , and hopefully I made everything easy to understand. Expect part 2 by next Thursday...lol I'm just kidding.

Great post Mr. M; definitely not boring. That's more of the nuts and bolts I like to see in a preview of a game... not just some prosey rambling culled from the author's imagination. I want to know how the game plays, what choices need to be made. Sure, the AARs and such give me a feel for how immersive the game will be, but they do nothing to indicate how the player is actually interacting with the game.

Thanks again. Actually, if you have more to share, I would like to see part 2 by next Thursday....

	07-02-2003 21:36									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Wow, Thanks for all the info! (Both Mr. M and Alexfrog)


Magnate races sound very simular to Minor races in Birth of the Federation (if anyone has ever played that). Which isn't a bad thing. I really like that kind of feature.

Also, maybe its just because its 'concept art' but some of the concept art does not apear in the screenshots you pointed me to (Mr. M).. I guess they were just concepts...
Also, the screenshots only show 6 of the 7 races. There are no shots of the 'Harvesters'

I asked this awhile ago when the 'In House Review Part 4' (i beleive)
had just been put out. But if a player is in the Senate, they will be able to propose bills and have the AI (or other players in MP) vote on them? And can they propose bills other just the basic 'appreciate race' or however its refered to bills. mm.. like could a player propose to ban Nuclear weapons? or is it just AI that does this?


(PS: This is kinda of off topic, and i'm sorry in advance. But can anyone see my Avatar? I've been here at Apolyton for 4 years, and have changed computers, and thus, hard drives, and I had a custom avatar. But the file is not on my hard drive. I was just wonder if anyone can see it. Not the Greenland flag. its a litle square that says "To Serve Man" sideways. Its actually a still from the Twilight Zone episode (my favorite one if you couldnt tell )...thanks again)

Last edited by To_Serve_Man on 07-02-2003 at 22:18

	07-02-2003 22:19									#50
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes I can see the Avatar.


There is a huge wealth of info about the game that has been posted on IGMOO....and lots of it is spread out all over, though some attempts have been made to collect it.

Most of us regulars over there have read it all....
so things we assume "everybody knows" are things that most people, even most moo fans, dont know about moo3.

	07-02-2003 22:21									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The player can propose bills exactly the same way that the AI can. I believe that you can only propose so many in a given time and have to wait a bit before proposing the same one, but I may be mistaken.

Otherwise, you and the AI are indistinguishable in that respect.

	08-02-2003 04:10									#52
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Mr.Moustache Magnate Races Besides the 16 playable races and the unplayable NO, there are Magnate races. Some of these races are actually from previous MoO's (MoO1 and MoO2), and of course there are races that we don't know about yet. Anway, these races inhabit certain planets. They don't build ships, they don't expand and you can't set up trade or non aggression pacts with them. Instead you can colonize the world that they inhabit, which they will become a part of your empire.

The other magnate races are:

Brye Ehts - non corpreal
Ajadar - protoplasmic
Audrieh - plants
Phaigour - fungal
Rhea - gargantua

	08-02-2003 04:23									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by To_Serve_Man But if a player is in the Senate, they will be able to propose bills and have the AI (or other players in MP) vote on them?

Yes.

quote: And can they propose bills other just the basic 'appreciate race' or however its refered to bills. mm.. like could a player propose to ban Nuclear weapons? or is it just AI that does this?

Yes, players can propose a number of laws and bills. I don't know about the nuclear weapons ban but the name starts with a anti NBC weapons law in place. As well as the normal laws there are special laws which appear randomly but are still voted on normally.

	08-02-2003 09:10									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Heh.

I cannot believe DanQ was 'selected' for writing this preview. No MOO experience, a writing style that borders on torture, and a lack of respect for MOO fans by not taking the time to actually understand or care about the game.

I agree with other posters that a better preview could have been written by a diehard moo1/moo2 fan without ever playing moo3.

If you were only allowed to play moo3 for half an hour or so (seems plausible, I cannot believe you could have played for more than that), I understand the shortcomings of your preview. If this is the case however, you should have had enough respect for yourself and your readers to tell QS to 'shove it'.

Thank you Dan for trying however. You must have put a lot of effort into writing those 36 pages and pasting screenshots. I must say with great regret that your preview has really dampened my enthusiasm for the game.

	08-02-2003 09:52									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I sometimes wonder if this was all a big joke too, if maybe Dan was writing that badly on purpose as some kind of wierd psychological experiment. Or perhaps they were lying about having the game in the first place, and the reviews were just based a hacked copy that wasn't functional or something like that. At this point nothing would surprise me. But then I know you should never underestimate the potential depths of plain old human stupidity.

What does surprise me is that nobody is writing in to say how great this review is. What happened to all the people who were praising Dan's work no matter how bad it was? Could this possibly have been too awful even for them?

	08-02-2003 10:04									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think those that don't mind the his previews have realized it simply is a waste of time to defend them. I read them for whatever bit of info I can gather. I'm hungry for the game end of story.

What is amazing to me is the amount of b****ing that goes on. If you don't like them it shouldn't have taken 5 previews to figure it out. I suggest NOT reading the sixth one and save your complaing for actual game play or balance issues.

	08-02-2003 10:32									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Are you kidding? The sheer awfulness of the previews is what makes them fun to read. It's like watching the bad movies on MST3K. Also they aren't all horrible. #4 was actualy halfway decent.

Obviously there are people out there who are so hungry for game info they will be happy no matter how awful the writing is. But even then you can't be too happy about this last one. Not only does it have no new info in it, but it's dead wrong about some of the info it has. Not only that but it shows that the reviewer didn't actualy play the game he is reviewing.

	08-02-2003 10:42									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't think it shows he didn't play the game. It shows he is completely unfamilar with the MOO universe. Anyone who's played either MOO or MOO2 knows a Meklar (or possibly Cynoid) designation when they see one.

That said the fifth installment is the only one of the five that I really got nothing out of. So what if his writing style leaves a lot to be desired, the previews still provided game info.

	08-02-2003 10:53									#59
	Tired of ads?

It's not the he didn't know a Meklar, it's that despite supposedly having the game for 2 months, he has only played 80 turns and not engaged in any space combat aside from with one scout where he didn't bother to control it. Imagine if he had actualy done his job and played the game? Think of the info we could have gotten then. And realize that if he hadn't written this review, the MoO3 people would have chosen somebody else to do it, presumably somebody who would actualy do their job.

There's nothing wrong with saying the preview had good information but bad writing. That's what most of us said about past previews. But anyone can just list information. Writing a preview is about doing it in an entertaining (or at least readable) fashion. Otherwise you may as well just give a list of facts.

	08-02-2003 11:02									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

From what I understood he was limited by QS on how much he could play. That combined with his infamiliarity with the MOO universe means less info gathered which leads to less info passed on.

If you are right and Dan has had it for 2 months then I COMPLETELY agree that it is pathetic what is being put out.

I am being both forgiving and appreciative to Dan in part because I sympathize with having an obviously complex piece of software to analyze, and a rabid group of followers picking at whatever scraps are thrown to them.