08-02-2003 12:57									#61
	Put an end to popups!

If his playing time was restricted by QS, he should

1. say so openly
2. don't write 30 pages when 2 would suffice.

How you can still sympathize with him as an author after he has started to mock and ridicule his readers is beyond me.

	08-02-2003 13:56									#62
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For how long could you (or anyone else for that matter) take vultures picking at you?

He didn't cast the first stone, or the second. Bash not lest ye be

	08-02-2003 16:14									#63
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he has so far cast 5.

I don't know what he was thinking... he hyped up this combat description so many times in ealier bits of the preview...

Was it all a ploy for advertising hits?

Was it an experiment: "what will the moo community tolerate for an article with moo in the title?"

wtf was he thinking? An in depth 30+ page preview dragged out over 6 weeks based on nothing?

	08-02-2003 16:16									#64
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ps - as a side - the actual writing itself has improved in 4 and 5. The organization is much better. Dan did put honest effort into pleasing the community.

But all in all, its just ... what was he thinking?

	08-02-2003 23:27									#65
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Hmm...
I don't have idea what's problem with all of you guys.

I liked this preview and liked several others.

First two were a little bit boring.

But all others are pretty good and informative (KEY word: informative)
Not same cut&paste job done with other MOO3 previews.

P.S.
Now stop ganging up against Dan.
That's just trolling.

Last edited by player1 on 08-02-2003 at 23:43

	09-02-2003 02:41									#66
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quote: Originally posted by player1 But all others are pretty good and informative (KEY word: informative) Not same cut&paste job done with other MOO3 previews.

But they are not informative, they are misleading! He tell us about non player empires when non exsist and refuses to correct his preview now hes been told he was wrong. Betas have hinted that hes wrong about other things but can't say due to their NDAs.

He hypes up his combat preview in the first 4 parts but it turns out to be:
"I pressed the wrong button and my scout got killed"
And he says that is his ONLY combat experiance. It's clear he has not even played one full game of Moo3, I'd be surprised if he had played over 100 turns. And it's not that he only got to play for half an hour or something, he's had the game for months:

"In late December, 2002, an advanced beta copy of [MoO3 arrived in my mailbox. Since then, I have had the opportunity to examine this much-anticipated turn-based strategy title first hand" - Dan Q.

As well as the above part 5 startles us by revealing you can both talk to other races via the diplomacy screen (wow!) and research stuff. Very informative.

	09-02-2003 04:33									#67
	Increase Your PM Length

But for that you don't need 20 posts.

Just one.
And its over.

P.S.
Actually, the most intersting is that part 5 has very much in game experince (description of game played).
Which I indeed find very interesting. Gives you feel of the game.

I remember that one of early complains about these previews was a lack of such info.

Heh, you can't please everyone.

	09-02-2003 05:42									#68
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Hey we can spend as many posts as we want discussing how bad something is. If you have something to contribute to the discussion, that's fine, but don't tell us not to make as many posts as we want in it. Miserly loves company and it can be quite fun discussing how bad something is.

And I didn't see much in the way of game experiences in this past preview. If anything I saw that the reviewer didn't play the game at all. He claims to have had the game since December so either......

1) He didn't do his job and actualy play the game before reviewing it

or

2) He lied in order to attract more readers (and presumably boost ad views).

Neither of these are particularly good.

	09-02-2003 11:14									#69
	Remove this text

From what we've seen I think Dan got to play the game in december, and for whatever reason IG just didn't want him posting his preview till now. Its quite obvious Dan didn't have more than a couple hours access the game, or else he would have understood that the only nonplayable races are the NOs and the magnate civs.

	09-02-2003 13:34									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Kc7mxo From what we've seen I think Dan got to play the game in december, and for whatever reason IG just didn't want him posting his preview till now. Its quite obvious Dan didn't have more than a couple hours access the game, or else he would have understood that the only nonplayable races are the NOs and the magnate civs.

If he didn't get his own copy why does he say this?
"In late December, 2002, an advanced beta copy of MoO3 arrived in my mailbox. Since then, I have had the opportunity to examine this much-anticipated turn-based strategy title first hand"

	09-02-2003 19:33									#71
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: If he didn't get his own copy why does he say this? "In late December, 2002, an advanced beta copy of MoO3 arrived in my mailbox. Since then, I have had the opportunity to examine this much-anticipated turn-based strategy title first hand"

Urk. Ok, well, I have trouble reading through most of his preview without falling asleep, so can you blame me for forgetting that?

Hmm. Maybe he had to send it back, i dunno. But I just find it impossible to believe he played more than a few hours before he wrote his preview.

	09-02-2003 23:25									#72
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"Advanced Beta Copy"

Doesn't this give you a clue at all?

He never had the complete, finished game, so obviously it's not going to be great - not to mention that it's a PREVIEW, as in before it's finished, not a review, not an AAR.

	10-02-2003 03:05									#73
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone "Advanced Beta Copy" Doesn't this give you a clue at all? He never had the complete, finished game, so obviously it's not going to be great - not to mention that it's a PREVIEW, as in before it's finished, not a review, not an AAR.

Late december, 2002. The game has been 'under production' for how long now, 3 years? Even with the rehaul... how much a 'beta' do you really think it was? All QS seem to have been doing over the last 2 months is moving offices and fixing mutliplayer bugs anyway.

He would have at least a similar version to the beta testers... look at what they can do.

And yes, I agree. It should have been a preview, not exhausting diatribe on Menus/icons.

quote: Page 58 of the MoO3 manual may refer to image to the left of the '152' numerical value in the aforementioned screenshot as constituting in part a test tube, but I believe it to me more accurately described as a beaker.

^Defend that.

	10-02-2003 04:41									#74
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Err - well, it does look like a beaker, i suppose...

	10-02-2003 08:35									#75
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone "Advanced Beta Copy" Doesn't this give you a clue at all? He never had the complete, finished game, so obviously it's not going to be great - not to mention that it's a PREVIEW, as in before it's finished, not a review, not an AAR.

Why yes, it does give me a clue. I tells be he got the same version the betas got in late dec. Here's a quote from CKs AAR posted on dec 4th:

"A number of the beta testers have said that the game's good enough and can be shipped already, and the rest can be fixed up in a day of release patch. I think so too. But I guess IG really wants to put out a great quality product that doesn't need to be patched to be a great game, and that's just fantastic. It gives me a lot of confidence in good post-release support for this game and in that the remaining issues will be no more by the time the game hits the shelves. "

So there's no reason whatsoever for him not to have played at least one full game.

	10-02-2003 10:20									#76
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It's also worth noting that if didn't have full access to spend as much time with the game as he wanted, there's no way he could have gotten all those screen shots or studied the interface in so much detail.

Clearly whatever build he had is functional enough for him play the game, even if there could be missing features. So there is really no excuse there for him not to have actualy taken the time to play it.

I suppose it's possible that he hated the game, but wasn't allowed to say it, and decided to get revenge by writing an awful the review. Certainly he couldn't have liked the game.

On a different note, some people have defended Dan by saying he's not a MoO fan. But if he's not a MoO fan, what the hell is he doing running a MoO fan site?

	10-02-2003 11:03									#77
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last time i checked, this was "Apolyton Civilization Site" not "Master of Orion Site"

	10-02-2003 11:07									#78
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Perhaps you missed the large masters of orion fan site that is part of the civilization fan site.

	10-02-2003 12:03									#79
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erm this thread is a total waste of space. im just going to jump in at the end and say my mind to dan...

thanks mate for making the effort to give me some info re this game.

to everyone else: how many other in depth previews do you see floating around the net? none nada niente! so shut up you whinging little sh|ts and give the guy some credit for taking the time out to try to do something positive for a community.

This is the best in depth preview of MOO3 in the world.

	10-02-2003 12:40									#80
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I suppose it's possible that he hated the game, but wasn't allowed to say it, and decided to get revenge by writing an awful the review.

Perhaps, but even that fails, as he is targetting the wrong people. It's possible to laugh with your readers about a bad game, but he is laughing at them.

quote: to everyone else: how many other in depth previews do you see floating around the net? none nada niente!

Fortunately you are right. If all previews had so much "depth" the guys who write interface tutorials for newbies would be unemployed.

	10-02-2003 12:41									#81
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quote: Originally posted by niteshade6 Clearly whatever build he had is functional enough for him play the game, even if there could be missing features.

His build had all the features.
"A number of the beta testers have said that the game's good enough and can be shipped already, and the rest can be fixed up in a day of release patch."

	10-02-2003 12:51									#82
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by JamesH erm this thread is a total waste of space.

Yet you post in it anyway?

quote: thanks mate for making the effort to give me some info re this game.

Now if only he'd played even one full game before trying...

quote: so shut up you whinging little sh|ts and give the guy some credit for taking the time out to try to do something positive for a community.

Good idea, if anyone disagrees with you call them names!

quote: how many other in depth previews do you see floating around the net? none. This is the best in depth preview of MOO3 in the world.

Hey, you're right! It is the best in depth preview of MOO3 in the world. Of course, that's not saying much because as you just said it's also the only one.

	10-02-2003 23:39									#83
	Suffering from ads?

Judging by Dan's latest contribution to the world of MoO3, these previews were a rather typical sample of his writing style. Consider this, posted at the main MoO3 page here on Apolyton:

"If you can`t wait for Master of Orion III`s imminent release to see the two game CDs, you can see a photo of them over at MoO3Planet. The JPEG image, posted today, shows that the first disc`s label is green-shaded while the second is red-shaded. - DanQ"

Gee Dan, thanks for that incredibly valuable update. I especially appreciate you telling me what color the discs are, I had a hard time seeing that for myself, and it greatly increases the feeling of anticipation I have for this game.

The scary thing is that the MoO3 main page points directly to parts 4 and 5. Imagine if you just heard about MoO3, go to the homepage to find some info, and then click on to those previews, hoping to get some info on whether this game is going to be worth $50...

Last edited by Dinamarth on 12-02-2003 at 07:13

	11-02-2003 05:59									#84
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

In regards to the posts about how we shouldn't criticize any of the preview, I remind you (as I have earlier in this thread) that the whole point of this thread is FEEDBACK. Feedback means the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I have gone back and read through the whole preview thus far and my impression of it remains the same. That is, I think that the preview is too far removed from examples of actual game play and it fails to provide any kind of a sense for how the game works as a whole. There is too much breaking down of individual components and too much effort spent describing those components.

Also, in part 3 DanQ states that he will "meticulously scrutinize" each government type in part 5. Maybe he meant part 6? I didn't see any government discussion in part 5. In part he also asserts that he will talk about the "ledger" in more detail in part 5. This didn't happen either but maybe it will come in part 6.

Really, parts 1 and 4 were actually pretty good but the rest I think needs a lot of improvement. The part that disappointed me the most was the combat overview. Ugh.

Hopefully the game will be released this week. Maybe in time for V-day? How sweet it would be!