08-02-2003 12:29									#31
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Is there REALLY any chance that a far left liberal will be able to change the conservative United States?

	08-02-2003 12:30									#32
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quote: Originally posted by cinch No kidding! You are like the anti-Chretien. Which is why I assume you feel right at home in our fair province.

My province is not my country...

My province is fine, it's the pinheads in the federal government in Ottawa that alienate me.

quote: PS: Damn your Flames! Why can Iginla only turn it on when it hurts us the most?!

Well, he's from Edmonton. He wants to see you hurt more than we do.

	08-02-2003 12:36									#33
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quote: Is there REALLY any chance that a far left liberal will be able to change the conservative United States?

Sure, there's a chance, presuming public opinion ever swings that way. I don't think there's any reason to assume that, because the population leans to the right at the moment, public opinion will definitely stay that way, in perpetuity...

Sure, it's not a very big chance, but still...

	08-02-2003 12:41									#34
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thats the interesting thing imran. i feel so disconnected from the rest of the country its almost as if im not living in america. the only thing that keeps me realizing that i am are the taxes and social secuirity i pay, and the Federal Government not accepting our states passage of prop 215.

Im not a far left liberal...maybe compared to your far right conservatism i am. its all a matter of perspective.

	08-02-2003 12:46									#35
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Yes, we need to secede from Texas and the USA. Long live the Austin Commune!

	08-02-2003 12:49									#36
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quote: Im not a far left liberal...maybe compared to your far right conservatism i am.

If you pine for San Francisco law, then you are a far-left liberal to the rest of the country. The rest of the country doesn't even consider San Fran in the same ballpark as the rest of us.

quote: Yes, we need to secede from Texas and the USA. Long live the Austin Commune!

Then the troops bust up your little 'party' .

	08-02-2003 12:55									#37
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But the troops would be so impressed by our revolution that they'd join our cause.

	08-02-2003 13:00									#38
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touche

	08-02-2003 13:20									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And no, I've never been alienated by my country. But I wonder, if you do feel alienated by your country why do you persist in staying? I mean, wouldn't it be logical that you'd go to somewhere where you wouldn't feel alienated?

Maybe it's because in spite of the alienation that gays and lesbian suffer, they are still most comfortable living in a country of their native culture?

Yeah -- I suppose other countries like Australia, Canada, or United Kingdom would not be as great of a culture shock in adjustment for American gays and lesbians . . . but still, what gives you the right to judge minority groups who have a legitimate reason to feel alienated by demanding "can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen?"

	08-02-2003 13:23									#40
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Because it makes no sense to stay in a country that you don't feel welcome in when there are others out there that you might.

It seems kind of... well.... dumb.

Especially when you are so outside the mainstream that it is reasonable to conclude that things will never swing your way in your lifetime.

	08-02-2003 13:31									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Because it makes no sense to stay in a country that you don't feel welcome in when there are others out there that you might. It seems kind of... well.... dumb. Especially when you are so outside the mainstream that it is reasonable to conclude that things will never swing your way in your lifetime.

Minority groups suffer discrimination historically in the United States, and in more subtle ways continues today. Yet, immigrants of minority groups continue to arrive in the United States, and American citizens belonging to minority groups choose to stay in their native country -- United States. Because they struggle towards the ideals of the United States in spite of the obstacles.

As an individual gay man, I am not constantly having this feeling of alienation -- it comes and goes, and usually is not that strong of a feeling. I am optimistic that United States will catch up with some of the other Western nations in acknowledging the human dignity of homosexuals.

I think those who do not belong to a minority group have a much easier time shrugging and say, "well why not just leave to live in a foreign culture and a foreign society?"

I do not want to disown American culture and it's ideals -- I want to struggle for them.

I'm not going to let homophobics force me to forsake my own country and give up any hope in overcoming obstacles they put up in front of us.

	08-02-2003 13:33									#42
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That was a very enlightened thing to say Imran. Where exactly do you think gays would be accepted without reservation?

So, only the mainstream are welcome in America? I guess I have misjudged. But maybe it is just some twerp spouting off.

	08-02-2003 13:36									#43
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I don't think attitudes towards gays are any different between the western US and western Canada, at least...

	08-02-2003 15:41									#44
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How could I not feel alienated? I'm a leftist in the western world .

	08-02-2003 15:47									#45
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as i said imran, its a matter of perspective. and no i dont want san francisco law.

san francisco law perpetuates homelessness with 300 dollar a month handouts. san francisco has a lot of problems stemming from an over liberalization of the city government. They let any stupid liberal special interest group pull them around with monetary sums

admittedly there are some good points like medical benefits for gay and lesbian couples, but then there are stupid things like the city paying for city workers sex change operations.

so imran, it is a matter of perspective.

	08-02-2003 17:17									#46
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quote: there are stupid things like the city paying for city workers sex change operations.

you're kidding... right?


and to the question:
Nope. I always try to fix it. Getting 'alienated' is moral chest thumping imo.