07-02-2003 17:21									#1
	Do you feel alienated by your country? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well living in the bay area i feel alienated by the rest of the nation and the political views they have. The bay area as a whole is liberal and theres no bones about it but it pains me when i see the rest of our nation disagrees considerably with our area on almost all issues.

I dont feel as american as i do californian. I feel that california is dragged into things (such as this war) by people in other states, and use our large tax base (california is the 7th largest economy in the world) to their own ends.

This is just my perception as i read through what a lot of other people say here and what is expressed in the media by people from other regions.

And i know a lot of people would say good riddance to bad rubbish if california was no longer part of the union, but i think the oppisite would hold equally true.

	07-02-2003 17:24									#2
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Yes. But it's not a feeling : it's a fact.

	07-02-2003 17:31									#3
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vive la californie libre

	07-02-2003 17:35									#4
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Dude!

	07-02-2003 17:37									#5
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I'll come over and fight for your liberation, go cali go!

I wish someone would oust our corrupt governement

	07-02-2003 17:37									#6
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Yeah I do, a lot of people here in Holland have such soft political views and I haven't, I'm much more right wing( I don't mean extreme right wing).

	07-02-2003 17:57									#7
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Perhaps California should join the EU?

Nah, the French would never agree to this, because of Hollywood.

	07-02-2003 21:36									#8
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obviously i do...
maybe not my country..but maybe by what MIGHT be a minority screaming to be heard. i can't tell what the truth is..i can't tell if this society really is teeming with christians who want to force their beliefs on everyone or if they just scream louder than everyone else.
but i'm inthe heart of bush country and the baptist bible belt. when i came here, i didn't realize it would be this bad...i stick out like a sore thumb. it gets lonely.
at this moment, i'm afraid bush will plunge the world into bloodshed needlessly..but i also fear i could be wrong and blood now might spare more in the future. but he's killing our forgein relations and prolly making more ignorant people hate americans...it's a precarious situation.

	07-02-2003 21:39									#9
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So why don't you just move to trendy downtown Vancouver and become a heroin addict with me?

	07-02-2003 21:41									#10
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cause i'm already messed up enough without adding drugs into the mix. i'm preparing to move somewhere else anyway...waiting for grad school.

	07-02-2003 21:43									#11
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So why don't you just move to spiffy downtown Toronto and come shopping with me?

	07-02-2003 21:46									#12
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I don't feel alienated by my country, because I belong to the standards of society here (white male belonging to the upper-middle class), and that my opinions and party are viewed with sympathy by others because of their current weakness.
If I were from Arabic descent and lived in poor suburbs, it would be greatly different though.

	07-02-2003 23:28									#13
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"obviously i do...
maybe not my country..but maybe by what MIGHT be a minority screaming to be heard. i can't tell what the truth is..i can't tell if this society really is teeming with christians who want to force their beliefs on everyone or if they just scream louder than everyone else. "

Well you are at Baylor University, a place known for its nutjobs...

	07-02-2003 23:59									#14
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I don't feel alienated at all. Contrary to what the media tells you, the majority of Americans don't want this war. The popular majority of voting Americans don't even want it. I'm not about to believe some USAToday or CNN poll. They call up a bunch of rich, conservative, white men and ask them what they think.

Sure, almost everybody wants Saddam gone. But not at the price tag of a 100 billion dollar war. That doesn't even count the cost of human lives. Or the cost of inciting an Arab world that already doesn't like us too much.

	08-02-2003 00:08									#15
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Seeing as how I'm Russian, not Ukrainian, I'd say so.

	08-02-2003 00:13									#16
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Yes, definitely.

	08-02-2003 00:17									#17
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Alienation from the mainstream isn't something new to me, obviously. But I see what you're saying, and would tend to agree. Living in the island of liberalism that is New York City, it's all too easy to become so used to the culture here so that there is a bit of a culture shock when I visit middle America.

	08-02-2003 01:22									#18
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From across the atlantic, the view of the US is of a uniquely diverse country, continuously struggling to hold many viewpoints together. The result of this seems to be a crazily complex system that bars much change and experimentation. (20,00 gun laws? I mean, c'mon!)
I wonder if a more EU style model would work better - then Cali could choose for itself, whether or not to send troops to Iraq. How would the Americans here feel about that?

In Ireland, I live in the one county out of thirty -odd which can basically dictate what will happen to the entire rest of the country. Doesn't mean I always agree with what the government does, though.

	08-02-2003 01:42									#19
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There are definitely times when I feel alienated by my country's society, but it's not constant.

	08-02-2003 01:43									#20
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I feel alienated by the old computer monitor sitting in the next room at times, for f*cks sake

Anyone hear about collecting "Catcher in the Rye"?

	08-02-2003 10:32									#21
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quote: The bay area as a whole is liberal and theres no bones about it but it pains me when i see the rest of our nation disagrees considerably with our area on almost all issues. I feel that california is dragged into things (such as this war) by people in other states, and use our large tax base (california is the 7th largest economy in the world) to their own ends.

Well well, a liberal lamenting the "re-distribution of wealth".

	08-02-2003 11:07									#22
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zylka: cause then i'd be broke! though canada sounds nice..but also very cold..and at the current moment, the Texas winter is almost too much for me.

shi huangdi: so wait a minute....are you saying baylor isn't a norm? i guess i've been here so long that i don't know what the rest of the world is doing...

	08-02-2003 11:10									#23
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To answer the question originally posed by this thread:

I have never felt alienated by my country, but as of tonight, I feel alienated by, and deeply ashamed of the man who is currently this nation's leader.

-=Vel=-

	08-02-2003 11:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx To answer the question originally posed by this thread: I have never felt alienated by my country, but as of tonight, I feel alienated by, and deeply ashamed of the man who is currently this nation's leader. -=Vel=-

Okay...what did I miss?

edit: nevermind.

	08-02-2003 11:44									#25
	Re: Do you feel alienated by your country? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by MRT144 And i know a lot of people would say good riddance to bad rubbish if california was no longer part of the union, but i think the oppisite would hold equally true.

Come home to the Empire...

British California. It has a nice ring to it. I suppose we could make room for another territory. What, that would make 4?

	08-02-2003 11:50									#26
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MRT are you wearing a jimmy sack like we told you to?!?

	08-02-2003 12:03									#27
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yes, ive been wearing many a "jimmy sack" since the incident. thank god californians arent afraid to provide them for free ala planned parenthood.

	08-02-2003 12:20									#28
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quote: Well well, a liberal lamenting the "re-distribution of wealth".

Nice call, berz. What about the good for the whole stuff?

And no, I've never been alienated by my country. But I wonder, if you do feel alienated by your country why do you persist in staying? I mean, wouldn't it be logical that you'd go to somewhere where you wouldn't feel alienated?

	08-02-2003 12:25									#29
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quote: Do you feel alienated by your country?

In a way, yes. Mostly because the eastern half of the country decides everything that happens, and the west is basically an afterthought. I also dislike how the only party that comes close to recognising the west is a laughingstock with a redneck image. And I hate how the party in power has ALL the power. And I don't understand why, after all this time, our senate is STILL appointed! AAAARGH!

Calm blue ocean... Calm blue ocean...

quote: Yes, definitely. -Asher

No kidding! You are like the anti-Chretien. Which is why I assume you feel right at home in our fair province.

PS: Damn your Flames! Why can Iginla only turn it on when it hurts us the most?!

	08-02-2003 12:27									#30
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quote: But I wonder, if you do feel alienated by your country why do you persist in staying? I mean, wouldn't it be logical that you'd go to somewhere where you wouldn't feel alienated?

Because there's always the chance you can change it?