08-02-2003 04:09									#1
	Master of Orion III manual Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Good news - it's substantial, and will probably be thick. It's 140 pages (I'm ignoring the credits and blank pages at the end) of information, with plenty of graphs and lists.

In other words, the Strategy Guide is supplemental, not necessary.

	08-02-2003 04:29									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Good manuals are thick :=)

	08-02-2003 05:05									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

while the manual covers many aspects of gameplay well, and does an excellent job on the backstory, it really does NOT have much in the way of details regarding many aspects of the game.

Note: all my comments are from a version of the manual which was originally printed to go with the release....if they reprinted the manual, some things may have changed/been added.

For example: It does not mention racial abilities except in a general, short paragraph description of each race....and that isnt gameplay details, its flavor. It does not even discuss various racial abilities such as talkking about any special abilities of the races, and details on diplomatic relations between the races, nothing on what types of planets each race likes, and not even a list of the various races abilities, like what DanQ did for the humans in the apolyton reveiw part 2.

It has no details on the points cost associated with race customization of various abilities (which differs by race...but it doesnt even MENTION it except to say that you can custm a race).

It doesnt even mention/describe the various abilities possible for customization, such as bioharvesting, mining, manufacturing, research, diplomacy, etc.....all those ones with Poor/Average/Good/Superior ratings (or equivalent)

It has no list of technology's/applications, no list of weapons/other military advances. It merely has an overveiw of what the tech fields are.

It has no list of planetary specials, no information on the various magnate (unplayable) races in the game.

It gives no gameplay details of the specifics of how much it helps your production for a world to be "mineral rich" or "poor" or whatever.

It does a good job of describing how to play the game, how to navigate the interface, how to DO stuff in the game...

It does NOT give details which would be necessary for any strategic development.

The strategy guide gives more, but itself is extremely lacking.


The only good source of strategy info will come from online FAQs after the game comes out, and playing the game oneself / creating these charts and figuring out the formula's for oneself....

And yes, this is based on my having read the manual.

	08-02-2003 05:23									#4
	Tired of ads?

Well it sounds like the manual does most of what you might expect. If only some methodical guy like Emrich could be persuaded to do a proper strategy guide now that the feature set is complete

	08-02-2003 05:40									#5
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Maybe the guy who did Vel's SMAC guide could step in...

	08-02-2003 05:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Tyranthraxus Maybe the guy who did Vel's SMAC guide could step in...

I think we could find him.

ACK!

	08-02-2003 05:56									#7
	:rolleyes: Got spare money?

What exactly do you want? The Encyclopedia Britannica? My needs for a manual are that it tells you how to play.

I don't need in depth stats.

I don't need the formulas or algorithms.

I don't even need the tech tree - especially when the game comes with an online "civilopedia".

I don't need Falcon 4's loose-leaf notebook manual - just a book that tells me how to play. Period.

	08-02-2003 06:09									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well I'm an old tyme gamer and ah rememba waaay back in the early 90's that SOME games came with thick manuals that were chock-filled with everyting, charts, stories, diagrams....

Not to compare apples and oranges but "NeverWinter Nights" has a GREAT manual plus they give you a little map!

The manual for "Age of Wonders 2" is also pretty good.

	08-02-2003 06:10									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't neccessarily need help with the numbers it has to crunch, but for a strategy game it would be nice to have some substance beyond story and interface.

If there isn't more than that, then they killed trees for no reason.

-P

	08-02-2003 06:33									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Kinda new here. Actually I've been new here since 2001. Check the side bar.

Anyway, I saw a picture of the MOO3 manual. Looks like it's the same size as the one for Pool of Radiance. The manuals for Age of Wonders 2 and Icewind Dale 2 were about 75% bigger. The strategy guide for MOO3 has more pages.

Sorry but I can't find the URL for the picture.

	08-02-2003 07:45									#11
	Got spare money?

Here you go !

Attachment: moo3manual.jpg
This has been downloaded 1410 time(s).

	08-02-2003 08:45									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Tyranthraxus Maybe the guy who did Vel's SMAC guide could step in...

Vel is working on his own game.
Look at the Candle'Bre section.

	08-02-2003 09:13									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Tyranthraxus The manuals for Age of Wonders 2 and Icewind Dale 2 were about 75% bigger.

Actually, I happen to have the Icewind Dale 2 manual right beside me, and judging by the picture posted above I'd say they have about the same number of pages and page dimensions are comparable (but I think MOO3's pages are a bit taller). It's a bit hard to tell with the perspective the exact relation, but there's no way IWD2 is 175% the size of MOO3.

Also, I just checked the page count: Jonah said MOO3 is 140, IWD2 is 147 (also omitting credits, index, contact info).

	08-02-2003 09:13									#14
	Support Apolyton

Wildman, how come the table and the kyboard on your pic look a lot like that on Gooberman's? You wouldn't happen to know the person who took the other one?

Last edited by vovan on 08-02-2003 at 10:10

	08-02-2003 09:20									#15
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Oh yeah... samish mouse pad and keyboard...

	08-02-2003 16:28									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

ah, that stuff isn't what manuals are for. Half of the fun of this kind of game right after release is the community compiling this kind of information.

The first month after release people will compile all the stats/costs/etc.

After that there is 2 months of analysis and debate reguarding the stats/costs/strats.

If there is a healthy multiplayer community, at the 2+ month mark game in practice strategies take over, and are debated, and refined. This can go on for years. Nerf demands will be set forth, and counters to 'overpowered' strats are suggested and debated.

If there isn't a healthy multiplayer community after the 2 month mark... I find the game tends to stagnate. People aren't pushed to find better ways of doing things.

	08-02-2003 16:29									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

i'm old school too, but those kinds of manuals jammed full of stats and the like just aren't nessecary now days with the amount of game information you have access to.

	08-02-2003 19:17									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Its the sort of stuff a strat guide used to do, but I guess these days with internet sites rivalling each other to have the info up free within days of it being released, strategy books have had to go for the early publication of more vague material to make money.

	08-02-2003 22:06									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I like to find how things work by myself. I like to read the manual before I install the game, but only to find out about some basic functions and general settings. The rest I like to discover while I'm playing the game.

	08-02-2003 22:22									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Does anyone know if there is also a pdf version of the manual?

	08-02-2003 23:52									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I Heard that there is a PDF on the second disc.

	08-02-2003 23:57									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There *IS* a PDF on disk 2, yes.

i will also say, don't jump into this game without reading the manual. If you are priviledged with the paper version, keep it in your bathroom, on your nightstand, and sleep with it in your bed at night. Otherwise, you are asking for total frustration.

For instance:
MOO3 had Production Points, Mining Points, and Industrial Output. do you know what the difference it? How about the difference between TestTubes and Research Points? What's the difference between techs being "ready to go", "in prototype phase", and "on the horizon"? etc.

	09-02-2003 04:29									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I love a good manual. I usually read through most of it before firing up my first game, and I'll read it over and over again until I've almost memorized it. Shoot, I've had games where the manual was more interesting than the game itself. I hope MOO3 isn't one of those...

	09-02-2003 05:43									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Who need manual? It will just spoil the game.
Better is play without manual at least few tens hours.

What's the difference between techs being "ready to go", "in prototype phase", and "on the horizon"? etc.

I prefer using brain and learn it from game. It is a lot more fun,r Ishould rather say interesting.

	09-02-2003 06:22									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by raghar Who need manual? It will just spoil the game. Better is play without manual at least few tens hours. What's the difference between techs being "ready to go", "in prototype phase", and "on the horizon"? etc. I prefer using brain and learn it from game. It is a lot more fun,r Ishould rather say interesting.

Yeah, well, when you've played for ten hours and still don't know a thing, come back here and let me tell you "I told ya so!"

	09-02-2003 08:00									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Can anyone post the .pdf of the manual or provide a link to where you can download it?

	09-02-2003 08:44									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by meprince Can anyone post the .pdf of the manual or provide a link to where you can download it?

absolutely not.

1) it contains harvester pix / history / info
2) it's probably illegal to transmit
3) you would be in the most serious trouble you could imagine

	09-02-2003 10:11									#28
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: absolutely not. 1) it contains harvester pix / history / info 2) it's probably illegal to transmit 3) you would be in the most serious trouble you could imagine

I would like to submit that at least _I_ can imagine more trouble than putting up a .pdf of a game manual.

Say, blowing up a couple of buildings and hiding out in afghanistan is more trouble than posting a .pdf of a game manual.

Just a thought

	09-02-2003 11:29									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Or you could park in a handicap space without a pass!!!

	10-02-2003 02:14									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by booje Well I'm an old tyme gamer and ah rememba waaay back in the early 90's that SOME games came with thick manuals that were chock-filled with everyting, charts, stories, diagrams.... Not to compare apples and oranges but "NeverWinter Nights" has a GREAT manual plus they give you a little map! The manual for "Age of Wonders 2" is also pretty good.

I can agree when it comes to the manuals for Neverwinter Nights and Age of Wonders 2, since I own both games. I was particularly impressed with how many charts and details are in the Age of Wonders 2 manual.... not THAT'S a game manual. It's not even that large, but what is there is actual INFORMATION about gameplay mechanics