11-02-2003 22:33									#31
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Sorry Arnelos. I did, but that update on the update appears to have gotten lost.

It is fixed. New totals.

Carthage 36
Greece 20
Babylon 16
America 15
Arabia 11

	12-02-2003 09:21									#32
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Still no word on civ choices by Webring (German team) or Firaxis. As the extended date for civ choices has come and gone - and the new team made the deadline - and that to-date, all first choices are different - I have proposed that those sites in with choices now should get their first choice, and the two 'late' teams should be required to pick other civs.

I'm not sure how this will go over. Will keep you posted.

I have also expressed my concern over Firaxis being 'there' to play the game. We have heard nothing - nada - zip from them. Kentonio indicated they were willing to play any parameters. But we then asked for play time availability and civ choices - and have heard zip. It would sure drag the game down if they were only willing to play during 'working' hours. Kentonio has been the contact with them and we will wait to hear what he comes up with.

	12-02-2003 23:22									#33
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OK - the German team has chosen:

1.Ottoman

2.Arabs

3.Egypt

This should be somewhat interesting - as they have come in with the same first choice as CGN. whose second choice was Carthage. Given that borc was about a delay posting his choice, and that no one has picked their second choice - Arabia, there may be an easy solution. Will let you know.

	12-02-2003 23:26									#34
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Based on those choices, add the Germans to the list of civs we don't trust not to whelch from their debts.

	12-02-2003 23:31									#35
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Both based on time stamp of entry, and that CGN's #2 and #3 civs were picked as #1 civs by other teams while no one else has picked the Arabs, the Germans should be bumped to their #2 choice of the Arabs, while everyone else gets their #1 choice.

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound OK - the German team has chosen: 1.Ottoman 2.Arabs 3.Egypt This should be somewhat interesting - as they have come in with the same first choice as CGN. whose second choice was Carthage. Given that borc was about a delay posting his choice, and that no one has picked their second choice - Arabia, there may be an easy solution. Will let you know.

	12-02-2003 23:43									#36
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Based on those choices, add the Germans to the list of civs we don't trust not to whelch from their debts.

Actually, the German team (which is playing the Arabs in the Inter-Team DG), has proven surprisingly honest, especially given that their level of honesty is being compared to the various teams from Apolyton

Of course, they might very well just be brutal warmongers who are just honest but still willing to mercilessly pummel you into the dirt...

But, in their defense, the signal-to-noise ratio when talking to the German Team has significantly more signal than noise... which I can't say for the various Apolyton teams Unfortunately, this is something which the German team may remember when they play in the inter-site game... It is quite likely that they will distrust much of anything said by an Apolyton inter-site team and, frankly, I don't blame them if our inter-site team acts similarly to what they've come to expect from Apolyton teams in the inter-team game.

Just a heads up for those like joncnunn who aren't in the inter-team game and haven't had experience talking with the German team.

	13-02-2003 00:26									#37
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My posts on who to trust and who not to trust for trade deals have strictly been based on the civs that they chose for the top 3 and the suitability for war mongeling during the ancient and middle ages of their UU with extra weight for ancient era and late weight for the Calvary UUs, with an increased weight for those starting with Warrior Code, Horse Riding, and to a lessor degree Bronze Working.

The least trust worthly rating on my system would be a group that chose Aztecs - Zulu - Irq.

The highest trust worthy rating on my system would be a group that chose America - England - Korea and England - America - Korea. (Tie)

	13-02-2003 00:31									#38
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We need to hear something for firaxis soon, or we will have to think about dropping them.

	13-02-2003 01:00									#39
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Pha! If you drop firaxis, the game will freeze after 17 turns.

	13-02-2003 02:47									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Actually, the German team (which is playing the Arabs in the Inter-Team DG), has proven surprisingly honest, especially given that their level of honesty is being compared to the various teams from Apolyton Of course, they might very well just be brutal warmongers who are just honest but still willing to mercilessly pummel you into the dirt... But, in their defense, the signal-to-noise ratio when talking to the German Team has significantly more signal than noise... which I can't say for the various Apolyton teams

This is very true ..some are playing the diplomatic scene a lot harder than others.

	13-02-2003 04:57									#41
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So - with two teams having the same first choice - a coin toss was held. CGN won - and gets Ottomans. The German team is playing Arabia - again. They've had practice ....

No word yet from Firaxis - or for that matter Kentonio - who is our contact with them. But yes - you are right - we may proceed without them.

	13-02-2003 05:08									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Actually, the German team (which is playing the Arabs in the Inter-Team DG), has proven surprisingly honest, especially given that their level of honesty is being compared to the various teams from Apolyton Of course, they might very well just be brutal warmongers who are just honest but still willing to mercilessly pummel you into the dirt... But, in their defense, the signal-to-noise ratio when talking to the German Team has significantly more signal than noise... which I can't say for the various Apolyton teams Unfortunately, this is something which the German team may remember when they play in the inter-site game... It is quite likely that they will distrust much of anything said by an Apolyton inter-site team and, frankly, I don't blame them if our inter-site team acts similarly to what they've come to expect from Apolyton teams in the inter-team game. Just a heads up for those like joncnunn who aren't in the inter-team game and haven't had experience talking with the German team.

You give them too much credit.

	13-02-2003 05:25									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Trip You give them too much credit.

	13-02-2003 05:44									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel

	13-02-2003 06:04									#45
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I find it interesting that in the civ choice discussion thread there was not much support for the Commercial trait, and then we pick Carthage! It sure is a good thing we have all these Carthage experts on our team to show us how to take full advantage of all its abilities.

	13-02-2003 09:11									#46
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Hmm... if i'm not too late

1. Arabia
2. Carthage
3. Germany

(yes, I like wars )

	13-02-2003 09:57									#47
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quote: Originally posted by HarryH I find it interesting that in the civ choice discussion thread there was not much support for the Commercial trait, and then we pick Carthage! It sure is a good thing we have all these Carthage experts on our team to show us how to take full advantage of all its abilities.

I did some testing playing commercial in MP. Specifically France. I found it to be not bad. An extra shield in a few second ring cities can actually make a difference in the early game which is the crucial period.

Be that as it may, we still have Industrious which is one of the strongest traits. I'd prefer to combine that with the American's Expantionist for a continents game, but that involves some risk and I understand why not enough agreed with me.

The bottom line is that after looking at it closer, and listening to others, Commercial is probably close to Religious in my book. Thus I am not disappointed.

	13-02-2003 10:29									#48
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Commercial's benefits add up most over time. Over time, the reduced corruption and those marginal increases in trade add up... and the more time you have for them to add up, the more valuable they have been.

Especially for the reduction in corruption.

I agree that America would have been great because of how well it's suited to multiplayer (which is why I voted for America!). Industrious+Expansionist is, in my opinion, the best early game combination of traits out there. Forget UU's, Industrious+Expansionist ROCKS in the Ancient Age.

But this is water under the bridge. Carthage is one of the most powerful civs in PTW.... I'm VERY happy with it.

	13-02-2003 14:59									#49
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Ah... ok... another Carthage game for me then...

Not bad, I guess we will be glad we've chosen it eventually... unless we end up on a lonely island far from everyone else, that is...

	13-02-2003 16:50									#50
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Ah... ok... another Carthage game for me then... Not bad, I guess we will be glad we've chosen it eventually... unless we end up on a lonely island far from everyone else, that is...

A Builders Paradise I would of thought

	13-02-2003 17:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel A Builders Paradise I would of thought

Oh, yes, especially if you prefer building temples, granaries and that kind of fundamental stuff...

	14-02-2003 04:31									#52
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And Firaxis' choices. They came in after the deadline and picked three civs already chosen. The concensus of the other teams, who have already reported back to their constituents on the approved civ choice is to say " with all due respect, please pick another civ." We are waiting to hear back from soren.

"Firaxis' choices:

1: Ottomans
2: China
3: Carthage

name: Firaxis Games
leadername: Sid Meier
title: Father of Gaming
noun: Firaxian(s)
adjective: Firaxian
color: anything but pink

and our best availablility is between noon and 8pm EST...

btw, we will not be able to play our first turn until Tuesday the 18th..."

	14-02-2003 05:04									#53
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They just chose those three to muck things up as much as possible didn't they?

	14-02-2003 05:34									#54
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No, I suspect they just haven't been paying attention. Which does raise a concern for the longer term.

You think they would get time off work for this, wouldn't you? ("Sorry boss, would love to attend your meeting, but I have to play our turn. But I will name the next city after you. )

	14-02-2003 06:09									#55
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quote: By NYE: The bottom line is that after looking at it closer, and listening to others, Commercial is probably close to Religious in my book. Thus I am not disappointed.

I have played with all the traits at one time or another. For me the benefit of Commercial really came on strong later in the game with a large empire. I was just commenting that with all the people who voted for Carthage that there were very few who spoke up for the Commercial trait in the other thread.

	14-02-2003 06:52									#56
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And Firaxis has chosen ......... Egypt.

(now - will culturally linked start be on or not....??? Hmmm, better ask.)

	14-02-2003 07:50									#57
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BetaHound....

Whoever starts the game should be someone trustworthy not to abuse the power, but they should establish an Admin password.

If we lose Firaxis (or any other team, for that matter), we don't want the entire game to have to stop

Just a thought...

	15-02-2003 01:17									#58
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I might be off with the PTW civs, but I think that with culutral on, there would be the following clusters:

1. Metertian: Egypt, Carth, Ottoman Empire

2. Asia : India & China

3. Middle East: Persia, Arab

4. Europe : France

Since this in contienants on a standard map, my guess is that two of the groups would be on one of the landmasses with the other two groups on the other land mass.

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound And Firaxis has chosen ......... Egypt. (now - will culturally linked start be on or not....??? Hmmm, better ask.)

	15-02-2003 02:10									#59
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FYI: Ottomans are Middle-Eastern, not Mediteranean.

Otherwise, you got it correct.

	15-02-2003 03:33									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos FYI: Ottomans are Middle-Eastern, not Mediteranean. Otherwise, you got it correct.

We do NOT want the persians & arabs(ND) as neighbors !

Say NO to cultural linking