08-02-2003 09:13									#1
	Civ Voting Summary Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Voting on civs has begun over here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=75946

It would be good though if there were a prominent place for a post with a summary of the voting. The first post of this thread would be fairly prominent, so here it is.

Duration should be as long as we possibly can accept votes. BetaHound should let us know when we are in the last 24 hours or so. Sound good?

I will count votes posted in either this thread or the other. It isn't too hard to watch in both.

Please post your top 3 choices for Civ. Assign each choice a preference. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choice. Each 1st choice pick awards the civ with 3 points, 2nd choice awards 2 points, and 3rd choice awards 1 point.

err, Go!

	08-02-2003 09:13									#2
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joncnunn: America 3, France 2, Carthage 1.
Togas: carthage 3, Arabia 2, Iroquois 1.
oliverfa: Carthage 3, Spain 2, India 1.
Panzer32: Carthage 3, France 2, Babylon 1.
E_T: Carthage 3, Arabia 2, France 1.
Shiber: Carthage 3, France 2, Egypt 1.
Kloreep: Carthage 3, Egypt 2, Babylon 1.
Aeson: Babylon 3, England 2, Ottoman 1; changed to Greece 2, England 1.
ZargonX: Carthage 3, Ottoman 2, America 1.
CiverDan: Carthage 3, Iroquois 2, Arabia 1.
MrWhereItsAt: Japan 3, Persia 2, China 1.
vondrack: America 3, England 2, France 1.
Hot_Enamel: Arabia 3, Mongols 2, Japan 1.
Tiberius: Babylon 3, Greece 2, English 1.
Thud: Greece 3, Carthage 2, France 1.
BetaHound: Greece 3, Babylon 2, Ottoman 1.
donegeal: Babylon 3, Greece 2, Egypt 1.
realpolitic: China 3, Iroquois 2.
Vlad Antlerkov: Persia 3, China 2, Babylon 1.
ThePlagueRat: Scandinavia 3.
panag: America 3.
dejon: Arabia 3, Babylon 2, Egypt 1.
Arnelos: Greece 3, America 2, England 1.
Aro: Catharge 3, Egypt 2, Greece 1.
Aidun: Carthage 3, Greece 2, Rome 1.
Nimitz: Carthage 3, Ottoman 2, Greece 1.
HarryH: China 3, Ottoman 2, Japan 1.
notyoueither: America 3, Egypt 2, Arabia 1.


America: 15; joncnunn 3, ZargonX 1, vondrack 3, panag 3, Arnelos 2, notyoueither 3
Arabia: 11; Togas 2, E_T 2, Arabia 1, Hot_Enamel 3, dejon 3, notyoueither 1
Babylon: 16; Panzer32 1, Kloreep 1, Aeson 3, Tiberius 3, BetaHound 2, donegeal 3, Vlad Antlerkov 1, dejon 2
Carthage: 36; joncnunn 1, Togas 3, oliverfa 3, Panzer32 3, E_T 3, Shiber 3, Kloreep 3, ZargonX 3, CiverDan 3, Thud 2, Aro 3, Aidun 3, Nimitz 3
China: 9; MrWhereItsAt 1, realpolitic 3, Vlad Antlerkov 2, HarryH 3,
England: 5; Aeson 1, vondrack 2, Tiberius 1, Arnelos 1
Egypt: 9; Shiber 1, Kloreep 2, donegeal 1, dejon 1, Aro 2, notyoueither 2
France: 9; joncnunn 2, Panzer32 2, E_T 1, Shiber 2, vondrack 1, Thud 1
Greece: 20; Aeson 3, Tiberius 2, Thud 3, BetaHound 3, donegeal 2, Arnelos 3, Aro 1, Aidun 2, Nimitz 1
India: 1; oliverfa 1,
Iroquois: 5; Togas 1, Iroquois 2, realpolitic 2
Japan: 5; MrWhereItsAt 3, Hot_Enamel 1, HarryH 1
Monguls: 2; Hot_Enamel 2,
Ottoman: 7; ZargonX 2, BetaHound 1, Nimitz 2, HarryH 2,
Persia: 5; MrWhereItsAt 2, Vlad Antlerkov 3,
Rome: 1; Aidun 1,
Scandinavia: 3; ThePlagueRat 3,
Spain: 2; oliverfa 2,

Last edited by notyoueither on 11-02-2003 at 22:31

	08-02-2003 18:26									#3
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1st Choice: Carthage
2nd Choice: Iroquois
3rd Choice: Arabia

	08-02-2003 18:49									#4
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I porpose that IF you want to change your vote, that you can only do so one time.

E_T

	08-02-2003 22:26									#5
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1st Japan
2nd Persia
3rd China

Surely winning through non-military means is highly unlikely vs humans. Early GAs are a nightmare, regardless of how good that UU is. On a regular world where it won't be too easy to get a large empire - the others will be expanding at just the same rate, at the same time - thus making commercial far less useful, surely. Industrious is of course god, and if not then Religious helps us with those few extra turns and that little bit more land early on.

	08-02-2003 23:54									#6
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Here are the choices of the other teams. I will update this as they come in - for now - only CGN has declared. And we are contacting Firaxis to see if they are going to submit choices or wait 'till the end. They are not voting in the game parameters either.

Gamecatcher: India, Egypt, Carthage

CDG:Persia,Vikings, Carthage

Apolyton: Carthage, Greece, Babylon

CFC: China, Persia, Japan

Grenouille: France, Carthage, Persia

Webring: Ottomans, Arabs, Egypt - loses coin toss and will play Arabia.

Firaxis: Ottomans, China, Carthage - but very late with civ choices, and were asked to re-pick. They have chosen Egypt.

CGN: Ottomans, Carthage, Persia - wins coin toss and will play Ottomans.

Last edited by Beta on 14-02-2003 at 06:53

	09-02-2003 10:01									#7
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Sorry MWIA, but...

Surely winning through military means is highly unlikely, as the instant one team gets a military edge on another civ or becomes obviously over powerful, they will get ganged up on by the other teams. A diplomatic victory is the only one I would think is impossible (military just slightly behind it). That leaves Space Ship and Culture. Space ship is easy to watch as the space ship is easily observable. Culture, on the otherhand, while is readily observable, is routinely dissmissed as a legitimate victory possibility, as evidenced by how quickly it was dissmissed when I suggested it in another thread by a few prominate players.

With this in mind:

1st: Babylon
2nd: Greece (only because of spearman that is as good as a Pike in the ancient age)
3rd: Egypt

	10-02-2003 04:41									#8
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CFC's choices are in:

1. China
2. Persia
3. Japan

I wonder what they have in mind?

	10-02-2003 06:19									#9
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound CFC's choices are in: 1. China 2. Persia 3. Japan I wonder what they have in mind?

This is a good point. We can tell things about sites' intended playstyles from their civ choices. Of course, a team could attempt to intentionally mislead others with their intended civ choices, but that's unlikely given that civ choice is so connected to optimal playstyle and they'll (mostly) want a civ that best suits their intended style, not one that's not as good for their intended style just to throw us off.

If we were to post choices for Carthage, Babylon, Greece.... gee, I wonder what people would think of us

	10-02-2003 06:23									#10
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My choce is

1. Carthage
2. Greece
3. Rome

Aidun

	10-02-2003 08:26									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos If we were to post choices for Carthage, Babylon, Greece.... gee, I wonder what people would think of us

I can hear John and Yoko playing in the background...

"All we are saying ... is give peace a chance."

(I guess we need team beads and sandals.)

	10-02-2003 08:57									#12
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1. Carthage
2. Ottoman
3. Greece

Those are my choices.

	10-02-2003 18:14									#13
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Grenouille - the French team has posted the following civ choices (surprise, surprise):

1. France
2. Carthage
3. Persia

	10-02-2003 19:04									#14
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound CFC's choices are in: 1. China 2. Persia 3. Japan

Hey! Exactly my choices, just in a different order. What are they up to...?

quote: Culture, on the otherhand, while is readily observable, is routinely dissmissed as a legitimate victory possibility, as evidenced by how quickly it was dissmissed when I suggested it in another thread by a few prominate players.

Well fine Donegeal, and I like your choices as well, but why are all and sundry voting for Carthage of all civs?

	10-02-2003 19:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Grenouille - the French team has posted the following civ choices

Ironic, aren't they ..?


(Grenouille is French for 'Frog')

	10-02-2003 21:47									#16
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Looking at those choices alone:

Don't accept GPT from those folks for techs.
Make them pay in full with cash, maps, or other techs.

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound CFC's choices are in: 1. China 2. Persia 3. Japan I wonder what they have in mind?

	10-02-2003 21:50									#17
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These are flying under the radar choices. Perhaps we could be trading partners with them.
Just don't relay on their help if we are attacked from another civ.

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Grenouille - the French team has posted the following civ choices (surprise, surprise): 1. France 2. Carthage 3. Persia

	11-02-2003 07:38									#18
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1. China
2. Ottoman
3. Japan

	11-02-2003 07:40									#19
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*bump*

This hasn't been updated in a while...

	11-02-2003 07:56									#20
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HarryH beat you to the bump with his votes.

But I agree - with you. It needs an update. With a new team in the fray, we will be giving them an extra half to a full day to come up with civ choices. The other teams have also yet to post. We had planned midnight west coast time - 3 am est - and 8am gmt as the rough deadline.

nye - If the results are ready, I can post them first thing tomorrow morning. If not, I am away from a computer until later tomorrow evening (I'm GMT-5). I will take them to 1BC then.

Thank-you for running this poll!!

	11-02-2003 13:35									#21
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Final 5 choices. Unless it is prolonged...

Carthage 36
Greece 17
Babylon 16
America 13
Arabia 11

	11-02-2003 13:39									#22
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Congratualtions people. You have voted to see that we have an MP basket case for a civ if we do not get Carthage. W00t!

No, I'm not bitter. I'm not at all concerned that the next several thousand hours of some of our lives may be devoted to a game where we ham strung ourselves right off the bat. I'm not one bit bitter. Nope.

	11-02-2003 15:26									#23
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We still have a chance.............

Perhaps another team will choose the Carthage.

Damn..... Our second choice is Greece
What have we done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	11-02-2003 15:37									#24
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We have made catapults very very interesting....

	11-02-2003 17:30									#25
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Looks like we still have a good chance at Carthage.

Gamecatcher

1.India
2.Egypt
3.Carthage

CFC

1.Persia
2.Vikings
3.Carthage

I will post our results this morning. That will leave the German team and Firaxis as the only ones not posted.

	11-02-2003 17:39									#26
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India and we thought we are the one who will fly under the radar ...

	11-02-2003 20:33									#27
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Place CFC on the list that we won't accept GPT for techs, but force them to pay in full with gold that turn, maps, and other techs.

On Gamecatcher's India choice, they might be hoping that they start no where near Iron & Horses, so that their UU is useful for more than just their GA. (Building Elephants to conquer an Iron & Horse source.) Even if they start near Iron & Horses, I'd place them on the be cautious about deals from the time they enter the middle ages until Calvary become adviable.

	11-02-2003 20:37									#28
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So far, across groups, Carthage does appear to be the most popular choice. (On all but 1 team's list so far)

Persia seems to be the second most popular (All but two teams list so far.)

	11-02-2003 20:43									#29
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Greece does have the most cost efficent defending UU of the ancient era and can start building them on turn 1 if they wish. (Bad idea though, would slow down scouting.)

We would then have the option of either going for Iron Working at fastest speed (a combo of Warriors to upgrade to Swordmens + Hoplites which makes for an army that's hard to stop if an oppoent starts close enough) or else Writing in 40 turns at 1 beaker each via 20% science.

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel We still have a chance............. Perhaps another team will choose the Carthage. Damn..... Our second choice is Greece What have we done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	11-02-2003 22:20									#30
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Arnelos notes that his votes have not been tallied by notyoueither