08-02-2003 14:09									#1
	Turn 50, 1790 BC Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Writing at 100%, ready in 6 turns.
- 76 gold cash, -2 per turn.
- EotS is at size 1 with 19 food in the box. Something must have went wrong with setting the laborers last turn!

Urgent questions:
- Given these circumstances, do we really want to build a worker now in EotS? It would be ready in 1 turn and leave EotS at size 1 with no food except the granary.

Military:
- Gronk and settler go 7 onto the Gold Hill.

Economy:
- EotS ... ?

Diplomacy:
- Continue figuring out what we want to do regarding possibly involving Vox in the Great Library project.

	08-02-2003 14:12									#2
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Team Scores:

87 (+2) Gathering Storm
96 (+1) Demogyptica
75 (+1) Glory of War
93 (+1) Role Play
72 (+1) Vox Controli
70 (+1) Lux Invicta
106 (+2) Legoland

	08-02-2003 16:14									#3
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damn... that is stupid. It will take 3 turns to reach size 2 from size 1, if the granary is empty... we need to get to size 3 or 4 fast to get a stable pump.

Can we build a spear in the mean time to catch up? Sure, he would be reg, but we don't have enough shields to build something better, and another warrior is stupid... we might want to send him out to the black spots on our map, to hunt for barbs...

DeepO

	08-02-2003 16:19									#4
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Hey, how can we be at size 1? we were ready to go to size 3 last turn, were we hit by disease again? I can understand that because of something going wrong with worker allocation, we didn't grow as expected, but not that we lost pop instead, we weren't starving last I saw.

If this is a bug, we need to warn the rest, and replay...

DeepO

	08-02-2003 17:10									#5
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Well... It must be a bug, for certain.

We are struck by disease again, and the city shows size 2, 1 left to grow, worker ready in 3. As long as I move units only, the city remains in this state. As soon as I open the city view, it drops to size 1 with 19 food, 6 shields in the box.

	08-02-2003 17:13									#6
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I can try to play the turn without opening the city view. Let's all pray, that nothing bad happens till next turn. And I hope, that the savegame isn't screwed, like ours in Strategy forum PBEM 1 was.

	08-02-2003 17:17									#7
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No. It doesn't help for certain. It's only a graphical bug. If I move EotS out of the screen and back without changing anything, it's size 1, when I return it to view.

Conclusion:

1 - We are struck by disease a 5th time (and may be a 6th next turn)
2 - Firaxis: Bug alert!

	08-02-2003 17:22									#8
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I'm going to open my copy of the game and see if I run into the same phenomenon.

	08-02-2003 17:28									#9
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Same phenomenon. Go ahead and switch EotS to building a settler. There's no way we want a worker finishing any time soon. We can decide later whether to leave it on a settler or do something like a warrior and then a worker.

	08-02-2003 17:32									#10
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How, hold on, where you actually struck by disease? I mean did you see the popup? Otherwise we need to bring this to the general forum, and ask for a replay of the last turn.

This is too much, I can handle getting 4 times disease in 49 turns, but I do not want to suffer from a bug when there is any remote possibility it can be resolved. We could say what is happening, and let the save go one turn forward to see if it is in effect so, and not a graphical update thing. Otherwise we need to get back to resolve it.

DeepO

	08-02-2003 17:45									#11
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It did say that EotS was struck by disease.

	08-02-2003 17:47									#12
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Yes, there's the popup (the small one, not the window, it appears only the 1st time).

Can anyone check, when exactly the disease strikes? Perhaps it strikes after we build the worker? If so, we build a worker and it cannot strike (size 1). If we switch to settler, we grow next turn and it strikes, leaving us in the same state only without a new worker. If not, oh well...

	08-02-2003 17:54									#13
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5 times in 50 turns??? talk about bad RNG rolls

I'll set up a test to see when disease strikes, and how this relates to growth at size 1. It will take me a while to set up, though... you can't indicate you want disease.

DeepO

	08-02-2003 17:57									#14
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Growth comes before production, and disease comes before growth (which is why it disrupts our two-turn growth rate). Actually, though, that may work out okay for us. Assuming the bug is in the display rather than in the calculations, we should be at size 1 ready to grow to size 2. (We were at 2 ready to grow to size 3 last turn, but we lost a food to our latest disease). So when the time comes to hit us with another turn of disease, we should still be at size 1. Then we'll grow to size 2 by the time our turn actually starts, and it will take three turns to get back to size 3. (And everyone cross their fingers that it actually works out that way.)

(Edited a line for clarification).

	08-02-2003 17:57									#15
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Another thought: could disease strike two turns in a row, so that the first turn you lose 1 pop, turn 2 you lose 1, maybe 2 pop (one from last disease, one from the current), turn 3 you lose the last pop, turn 4 is free? It could be that next time we won't get hit by disease...

DeepO

	08-02-2003 18:06									#16
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We have 2 green hours left. Take your time for the test.

	08-02-2003 18:32									#17
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Okay, some results. When building a worker, it gets done after disease, that's for sure. But as Nathan already said, if the food box doesn't get increased until after disease, we might pull it off to either build a worker next turn, or increase the size as we'll grow after disease has taken place. It's a ***** to test, though, as disease has to strike with enough food in the box and enough shields to build a worker.

DeepO

	08-02-2003 18:59									#18
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but we won't have the shields to have a worker finish next turn, right?

	08-02-2003 19:04									#19
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We have 6 in the box and make 3. If the new citizen makes at least one (it should, there's an irrigated fur left), it suffices for the worker.

	08-02-2003 19:09									#20
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Test completed. We will be hit by disease first, and can either build a worker, or increase in size next turn if there is enough food to grow. So, the choice is if we want to get at size 2, ready to get to size 3 in two turns, or want to have a worker, and no food left (hence 4 turns to size 2).

I vote to build something other then a worker, so we are at least at size 2 again, ready to get to size 3. If we build a warrior, shouldn't we be back on schedule, with one worker delay as to what was planned?

DeepO

	08-02-2003 19:14									#21
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Let's go ahead and build a warrior so we don't take so long to get back up to size. We'll need three turns to grow from 2 to 3, and then we'll be back on our two-turn growth pace.

	08-02-2003 19:19									#22
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Sorry, size 3 in 3 turns after getting to size 2 of course. Minor slip

The warrior is fine for me.

I just realised that at least this time disease doesn't cost us 2 population, but only 1. heh... at least we are that lucky

DeepO

	08-02-2003 19:30									#23
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Ok, so we build a warrior. At least something to take care of barbarians. I play the turn now.

	08-02-2003 19:39									#24
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Damned, are we struck again...
Warrior sounds good.

	08-02-2003 20:02									#25
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I agree. We made a good choice.
Thumbs up to DeepO for running that test.

	09-02-2003 00:46									#26
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I feel that we may not have paid proper respects to Jupiter and Mars.

* notyoueither says prayers

	09-02-2003 01:52									#27
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I've been catching up on the various forums...

Am I correct that Lux and GoW are at war?

	09-02-2003 02:12									#28
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If this is true, then this is wonderful news!
How/where did you hear of this?

	09-02-2003 02:15									#29
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Theseus, are you referring to their settler incident ? I wouldn't believe it...

DeepO

	09-02-2003 02:36									#30
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Yeah, that's where I saw it. You think it's just trash talk?