10-02-2003 07:32									#1
	Solving the Hwacha dilemma Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Some of you may remember how I posted a poll on lethal bombardment, partly because Korea can't get a golden age without it.

I've decided to avoid the problem.

1) Ironclad now requires Steel, placing it later in the industrial age, lengthening the Age of Sail.
2) I downloaded the Turtle Ship from Frames Extra Pack .
3) I made the Turtle Ship available with Steam Power, same as Ironclad originally. Turtle Ship has the same attributes as Ironclad, it's just that the Koreans get it earlier--keeping with history.
4) The Hwacha is now an orphan unit that no one can build. Lethal bombardment problem solved.

	10-02-2003 11:54									#2
	Re: Solving the Hwacha dilemma Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by HolyWarrior 1) Ironclad now requires Steel, placing it later in the industrial age, lengthening the Age of Sail.

Historically speaking the Ironclad is very much in its correct place since it was developed in the 1860's. You mention Steel as the advance needed but the "Steel-Age" represented the 2nd Industrial Revolution which was more or less around the 1880s until the 1st World War which gave the world big industrial firms (The Corporation), steel instead of iron, and oil instead of steam (Refining). This was the time where the US and Germany took over Britain as the most powerful industrial nations in the world.

I think the problem is that Magnetism is too late on the science map in Civ3.

In any case, if you want to change the advance necessary for an Ironclad I guess the only historically-correct way is to make it available after Industrialization.

But of course, if your mods suit you well then do it as you wish

	10-02-2003 15:46									#3
	Re: Solving the Hwacha dilemma Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by HolyWarrior Some of you may remember how I posted a poll on lethal bombardment, partly because Korea can't get a golden age without it.

This is not true. Every game I played as the Koreans I got a Golden Age. I did it by building Scientific and Commercial wonders.

	10-02-2003 21:41									#4
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Yes, Warpstorm, but out of the box the Hwacha can't kill anything, starting a golden age--unlike other UUs. This puts Korea at a disadvantage which I have eliminated.

Master Zen--interesting idea with industrialization. I'll have to test my mod and see how it goes. If civs are getting ironclads too late, I'll definately give your idea a try.

	10-02-2003 23:06									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have given the hwacha a defensive strength of 4, made it available with gunpowder in hopes it would lull other units into attacking it. problem is, ai still won't build the freakin things, even emphasizing bombardments units for koreans.

	11-02-2003 01:23									#6
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I think another problem with giving Ironclads until Steel is that the AI will stop building them because they'll be able to get Destroyers immediately after.

	12-02-2003 03:27									#7
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I can't believe this bug actually made it into the game.

On the other hand, for certain games, it's a good thing... the Koreans won't trigger a Golden Age until they build the internet... essentially "setting" the golden age, so that you know ahead of time.

Of course, you could build a scientific or commercial wonder, but there's a greater reliability this way.

	12-02-2003 03:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I can't believe this bug actually made it into the game.

It's not a bug, Firaxis intentionally took this away. I remember an early version that had it turned on. If you made huge stacks (30-50) of Hwach'a you could march in and take a city a turn with no real chance of losing a unit(assuming you had a couple of defensive units in the stack) up until Infantry hits the scene. They decided that this was too easy for the human players to do.

	12-02-2003 03:49									#9
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Well, I >do< think the unit is too powerful, but how to trigger a Korean golden age via unit?

	12-02-2003 05:00									#10
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i solved it! made the hwacha a sub for musketman, 2-4-1, with its bombardment strength. giving it an offensive as well as defensive strength allows you to designate it as a defensive as well as bombardment unit in the civs section of the editor.

ai korea builds them, uses them for defense as a musketman, and bombards (as much as the freakin ai is capable of, that is). and man oh man, what a nightmare when you attack one of their cities! problem solved. plus, animation is sooooooooo cool.

	12-02-2003 19:14									#11
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Yahweh Sabaoth, it's actually quite easy for the Koreans to get their Golden Age via wonders on just about any difficulty. If you build either Smith's Trading Company or Magellan's Voyage coupled with Theory of Evolution, Newton's University, or the Great Library, there's your Golden Age right there in the late Middle Ages/early Industrial. Even on Deity where the AI will leave you in the dust for wonders until the Industrial, you can still go for Theory of Evolution and the UN for your Golden Age before you reach the Internet. About the only civs who would have an easier time with wonder-building Golden Ages on Deity would be Germany (Universal Suffrage + Theory of Evolution) or Persia/Ottomans (Theory of Evolution + Hoover), or China (Universal Suffrage + Hoover) but all three of these typically get their golden ages from their units anyhow.

Actually, the way that Korea handles their Golden Age might be considered a better way than what happens with Greece (the other civ with Scientific/Commercial traits), who squanders one right at the start of the game with their hoplites, and often as not has no way to take advantage of it.

	12-02-2003 20:26									#12
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Perhaps this is a stupid question, but do civs need to build one wonder for each of their traits in order to trigger a golden age (assuming their unit does not)?

	13-02-2003 02:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Perhaps this is a stupid question, but do civs need to build one wonder for each of their traits in order to trigger a golden age (assuming their unit does not)?

Or one that has both (only Internet for the Koreans, but some other civs have it easier).

You can also get one by capturing a Wonder and building one.