10-02-2003 13:17									#1
	Does your country have an emigration problem? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't expect many responses. Mexico perhaps?

But really some of you European nations should be concerned. Some of your best and brightest come to the U.S. where they can make real money and be rewarded for their intelligence, instead of being taxed.

	10-02-2003 13:19									#2
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Yes, not enough anti-US whiners are leaving the country.

	10-02-2003 13:25									#3
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Yes, the Lithuanians aren't leaving Lithuania. That's Russian property now! Move to Siberia already, damnit.

	10-02-2003 13:26									#4
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On a related note does anyone of value actually leave the U.S.?

I know pretentious types leave the U.S. for places like Paris, France. But do people of any importance leave? I can't think of any cases of this.

	10-02-2003 13:34									#5
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I'd say the opposite. We have an immigration problem.

	10-02-2003 13:36									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident On a related note does anyone of value actually leave the U.S.? I know pretentious types leave the U.S. for places like Paris, France. But do people of any importance leave? I can't think of any cases of this.

I think some actors/singors such as Streisand said they would leave the US if Bush got elected, sadly they didn't follow through.

	11-02-2003 05:44									#7
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Yes, Croatia has an emigration problem.

Bright and young people go abroad to seek oportunities they dont have at home.

Bright... State can live without them: they are always first to criticize any government and besides lots of countries get by with second rate talent

The young... a far bigger problem for the State. Young people are supposed to stay here and engage in activities that will increase the numbers of citizens of the appropriate type (read - catholic Croats)

I emphasised the State, because from my personal viewpoint, none of these things hurts me directly. Hurts my country though.


There will always be emigration, but at least I hope it will never again be because of political persecution or survival as the case was in this country since ... forever.

	11-02-2003 05:57									#8
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Scotland's population has been declining for a while now, will probably slip below 5m soon. Dunno where they're going, probably to the SE of England.

	11-02-2003 06:13									#9
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Not really, despite a bunch of conservative whining to the contrary.

Exhaustive studies have demonstrated that our trade in highly-trained professionals is just about balanced with the US, and of course our trade with the rest of the world is heavily in our favour.

	11-02-2003 06:30									#10
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The immigration in Greece poped up from nothing to 1 million and more immigrants in less than 10 years. (in a total of 10 mil population)

The two major pains in the butt is that there was not a concrete immigration policy and that every poor sod in our surroundings wants to get in and stay or go to the rest of the EU.

Thousands of immigrants buld up in Turkey wanting to get in.

Dozens are drown in the sea others are blowed up by mines in the Greek-Turkish border. And others take their chances through the mountains of the north in Macedonia, Ipirus and Thrace many of them dying in their effort too by the harsh elements.


Yes we do have a little problem.

As far as criminality, people think we do, but we have the lowest crime rate in the EU.

As far as jobs go, people think we do but I believe that's more because of state policies than the immigrants.

	11-02-2003 07:35									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Scotland's population has been declining for a while now, will probably slip below 5m soon. Dunno where they're going, probably to the SE of England.

5m? The city I live in alone has 1.3m and L.A. is four or five times as many people. You Scots need to start showing porn on T.V. or something; somebody needs to step up to the plate and help make the next generation a reality.

	11-02-2003 07:38									#12
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I was thinking about this the other day and I realised that in Canada (and possibly the US) there are almost as many Scots-descended people as there are English-descended, but that in the UK there are 10X as many Englishmen as Scots.

It's very odd...

	11-02-2003 07:39									#13
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Toronto and surrounding areas has almost 5 million...

	11-02-2003 07:43									#14
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India and Bangladesh have some pretty severe brain drains going on at the moment.

	11-02-2003 07:46									#15
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Yup. China too, from what I've seen (but they can more afford it because they churn out more uni graduates)

	11-02-2003 08:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Not really, despite a bunch of conservative whining to the contrary. Exhaustive studies have demonstrated that our trade in highly-trained professionals is just about balanced with the US, and of course our trade with the rest of the world is heavily in our favour.

What's been overlooked is the emmigration of Hong Kong immigrants to Canada. During the late 80s and early 90s there was a flood of Hong Kong people moving to Canada. Many of these people were well educated entrepreneurs. A large portion of these immigrants have returned to Hong Kong to start new businesses. They're creating jobs in Hong Kong and Mainland China, rather than in Canada.

	11-02-2003 09:05									#17
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I doubt that has much to do with us, though. That has more to do with the fact that the Chinese didn't slaughter Hong-Kongians by the thousands on Jan1 1997(?)

I bet it was similar in the states (although I hear we we were easier on restrictions, so more came here)

That's also a temporary effect that can be pretty easily separated from long-term trends...

	11-02-2003 09:23									#18
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You're right about why these people returned to Hong Kong, and this trend probably occurred in other places as you suggested, but it still represents a missed opportunity.

Long term, most Hong Kong people I know with Canadian citizenship want to return to Canada, but after they retire. This will create some interesting effects on the Canadian economy in abou 20 years. There will be lots of wealthy Hong Kong people moving back creating an infusion of investment into Canada, but also putting a strain on the Canadian healthcare system due to their old age.

	11-02-2003 09:29									#19
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In 20 years though, some of the cities in the Pearl River Delta will develop into garden cities for retiring people, just like some cities in Mexico are. They will be able to attract lots of people with Canadian citizenship there.

	11-02-2003 19:21									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident On a related note does anyone of value actually leave the U.S.?

Yes... anyone wanting to do medical research not condoned by the current administration. There are quite a few US scientists in England, for instance, doing stem-cell research.

	11-02-2003 19:30									#21
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There are a ton of U.S. ex-pats living in just about every country of the world. Many of them go native or meet a local spouse and never come back.

	11-02-2003 20:49									#22
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Yep, I personally know a few who came from the US to live here. And I know of several others who are seriously thinking to do the same. Also, there is a lot of people from Germany, Austria and other EU countries who come to live here. Not only old folks. But is't not because of money. You have to realize, although its hard for some people, that money isnt everything in a persons life.

	11-02-2003 21:15									#23
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quote: "Short of a major increase in immigration, economic growth cannot be safely counted upon to eliminate deficits and the difficult choices that will be required to restore fiscal discipline," Greenspan said.

Guess that settles that.

	11-02-2003 21:22									#24
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Why do you keep quoting one of the foremost disciples of Ayn Rand, che?

	11-02-2003 23:49									#25
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quote: 5m? The city I live in alone has 1.3m and L.A. is four or five times as many people. You Scots need to start showing porn on T.V. or something; somebody needs to step up to the plate and help make the next generation a reality.

It's a very slow decline. The population has never been more than 6m, for example. I don't think that Scotland has the geography to support a very dense population.

quote: I was thinking about this the other day and I realised that in Canada (and possibly the US) there are almost as many Scots-descended people as there are English-descended, but that in the UK there are 10X as many Englishmen as Scots.

Scotland certainly had a higher emigration rate than England in the past, but don't you think that at least part of that statistic is North Americans deliberately up-playing their Scottishness?

	12-02-2003 00:23									#26
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: "Short of a major increase in immigration, economic growth cannot be safely counted upon to eliminate deficits and the difficult choices that will be required to restore fiscal discipline," Greenspan said. Guess that settles that.

They could always cut spending and that would eliminate the deficit. Of course that would be logical so no one in Washington will propose doing that.