12-02-2003 01:59									#1
	Diplomatic talks with Trip Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have had a chat with trip this evening, he was telling me some interesting news and did a promise to withdraw their guarding warriors two tiles, which is pretty much and should make the situation less heated.
They also have some troubles with GoW. GoW doesn't even respond anymore, like ND is doing. Trip fears ND and GoW allying against him.

quote: Discussion with Trip Trip> you there? Aidun-busy> Yes sorry I was Idle Aidun-busy> Dinner Trip> ahhh, right Trip> sounds good Aidun-busy> What's the matter? Trip> just wondering if you knew what got GF so peeved Aidun-busy> No is he? Please tell me Aidun-busy> I'm back Trip> ah, welcome back Trip> did you see my question?" Aidun-busy> Yes >Trip> just wondering if you knew hat got GF so peeved Aidun-busy> >Aidun-busy> No is he? Please tell me Trip> check the saved game thread Aidun-busy> ok I'll do so Aidun-busy> He is a bit brief with his words... Trip> indeed Trip> do you have any clues? Aidun-busy> No I don't have any, but I'll look on my team forum Aidun-busy> In the meanwhile I want to discuss anything with you Aidun-busy> * not anything but something Trip> ah Trip> okay Trip> I'm here Aidun-busy> The ND conflict if you don't mind Trip> of course Aidun-busy> We are a bit worried about the current situation Aidun-busy> I urge you that you try everything reasonable to avoid war Trip> have yout talked with Togas about it? Trip> Togas, E_T and I discussed it quite a bit Aidun-busy> No, I haven't met him Trip> ahh Trip> the problem with the situation is that ND is unwilling to negotiate Trip> we've sent 3 PMs to them, and they never reply Aidun-busy> We'd rather see you two live in peace Trip> as would we Trip> another fear is that GoW may join them Aidun-busy> We fear that too Trip> what does your team feel about this situation? Aidun-busy> Please don't tell anybody of what I'm going to say now, it could cost me my head as is probably happening to Ninot now Aidun-busy> He is being accused of High Treason Trip> really? Aidun-busy> Yes Trip> what's happened to him? Aidun-busy> He has talked "wrongly" to GoW, while he did not intend to do so. Trip> really? Trip> what did he say Aidun-busy> Only the High Priest and Togas can still save him Aidun-busy> It was rubbish talk, not to be taken seriously Trip> ahh Trip> very well Aidun-busy> But deadly Aidun-busy> The axe is now just above his neck Trip> ahh Trip> that's too ad Trip> bad Aidun-busy> But to go back to business... Trip> yes, indeed Aidun-busy> My team is divided Aidun-busy> What has Jdjdjd told you Trip> haven't heard much from him lately Trip> got a PM from him about trading for Writing Trip> but that's it Aidun-busy> Yes he has written that in the thread Aidun-busy> The thing is that people are also divided about the way Lux is dealing in foreign affairs Trip> they are? Trip> in what way? Aidun-busy> People are worried about you threatening ND with your warriors Aidun-busy> That's one point Trip> we have two warriors in neutral territory near our capital, to prevent them from settling there Trip> we're not 'threatening' them in any way though Aidun-busy> ND told us about you moving warriors into their territory and it was admitted by you or someone else of Lux Invicta Trip> the only time we moved into their territory was when we had a warrior going south, and we passed through 1 tile of theirs Trip> anything else is a lie Trip> ND is trying to act like the victim here Trip> when they're the ones building up their military and threatening us every time we get NEAR (not in) their border Aidun-busy> Wheter they are acting the victinm or not, threatening is risky and is getting the people divided here, which certainly shall have consequences for Togas' policy to you Aidun-busy> I want to warn you for that Trip> again, I reiterate Trip> we have two warriors protecting neutral territory Trip> which we NEGOTIATED FOR, but they then voided our agreement Trip> so now we're defending what's ours Trip> make sure your team is aware of that Aidun-busy> I am not accusing you of anything and I believe in your best intentions and your proper way of handling. Aidun-busy> Even to ND Aidun-busy> I will make clear that you are not just moving units in and out ND's territory Trip> in a sign of goodwill and to show your team that we desire peace, we will even withdraw our defending warriors at least 2 tiles Trip> please make sure that that's passed on to your team as well Trip> we genuinely do not wish for things to end up going to war Trip> for people to think that we are is wrong, so we hope that's not how you see things Aidun-busy> I am glad of this decision Trip and I shall try to convince Togas that Lux is not the bad guy Trip> like I said, we truly desire peace Trip> we are and will do everything we can Trip> however, we can guarantee nothing on ND's side Aidun-busy> Of course not Aidun-busy> ND is the uncertain thing in this Trip> have you had many discussions with them? Aidun-busy> They are sending us PM's now and then. Trip> what is the subject of the PMs? are they just trying to alienate us? Aidun-busy> They are very much bothered about Lux's behaviour, they are NOT alienating you Aidun-busy> Just very bothered Trip> we heard from them that they were sending out PMs to everyone telling them that they shouldn't trust us Trip> that was the last message we got from them Trip> other than about (literally) 4 warnings of us NEARING their territory Trip> any time we respond they ignore us also Trip> which is great Aidun-busy> Bullshit and who's going to trust people sending such messages? Aidun-busy> I understand your probem. I fear we'll face it too in time Trip> yes Trip> I'll find the message they sent to us, if I haven't deleted it Aidun-busy> We have some quables with ND about the border or our countries Trip> Of course we'll inform the other nations about your careless and impudent behaviour, so that everybody is warned there may be an early war where the Ottomans are to blame. Aidun-busy> Interesting PM it please Trip> We expect you to apologize for this invasion immedeately if your nation wants to exist any longer. Trip> Picahulu, ambassador of Neu Demogyptica Aidun-busy> Not needed anymore Trip> hehe Trip> so you see Trip> we passed through 1 tile exploring to the south Trip> and we got that Aidun-busy> Certainly a bit overreacted Trip> yeah :\ Aidun-busy> But Wasn't it possible to avoid passing to their territory? Trip> it went nearly to the coast and we would have taken 5 turns to go around Aidun-busy> difficult situation, I don't know what I would have chosen for. To the AI I would have made the same decision as you've made here Trip> yep Trip> we passed through 1 tile Trip> meanwhile, they have 2 scouts right next to us Trip> and they're telling US to move our warriors... * Trip shakes his head Aidun-busy> irreasonable Trip> they even tried blocking the movement of one of our settlers with their scout :\ Aidun-busy> How unfair Trip> like I'm saying Trip> I just want everyone to know the full picture Aidun-busy> Yes that's important. Aidun-busy> Do you knwo how GoW thinks about the whole affair? Trip> from what I'd heard recently GoW was very very upset Trip> like the Ninot situation Trip> one of our ministers gave out some grossly false information Trip> now GoW is very very upset, and thinks we want to go to war with them Trip> I'm afraid if ND attacks, that GoW may join in... Aidun-busy> That's not good Trip> agreed :\ Aidun-busy> You don't have a Non aggression treaty? Trip> we do, but it expires soon Aidun-busy> That needs a very good diplomatic act from your side then Trip> we've been trying Trip> Neither GoW nor ND will negotiate Aidun-busy> Why have you risked btw to tell them some grossy lies Trip> what do you mean? Aidun-busy> You said your minister told some grossy false info, why have you risked to do so? Trip> he was unauthorized Trip> he just started going off Trip> he was gone for a month, so he probably didn't know what was going on Aidun-busy> It must be difficult to be a ruler Trip, its something that can happen to all of us Aidun-busy> and yes, very likely to what happened to Ninot Trip> yep :P Trip> sometimes I wish I didn't have so much to do, but it's fun Aidun-busy> Ofcourse it is Trip> hehe Trip> anyways, just wanted to sort things out with you guys Trip> make sure your team hears our side of what's going on Trip> go to #LuxInvictaGeneral Aidun-busy> I'll tell them every thing Trip> okay, great Trip> I'm talking with dejon now Trip> go to that channel Aidun-busy> yes I had to inform them Trip> oaky

Adamada, perhaps you should talk to Ghenghis about this and try to avoid war between those two. For me personally, I wouldn't like to get into a war with GoW now we have such a good relationship with them.

I'm imterested about Togas thoughts about this.

For the Watcher: I had no intention to betray Spain. If I have said too much, please don't make a trial of it, I did this with the best intentions to save our country from war. Thank you.

Aidun Cian the Older

	12-02-2003 03:36									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aidun, I could understand that a FAM or an ambassador could have some desire to hang you, but the Watcher really dont care of cowboys playing the diplomats.

	12-02-2003 03:57									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Hmm... The Watcher just follows his own secret agenda, or what?

No seriously... It's bad for us if Trip is nonsensing us to make us become his allies. How much do we know about GoW and ND plotting together?
I think it is in the interest of Spain to maintain our relations to ND right now.

	12-02-2003 05:11									#4
	Got spare money?

Seeing my name in there as a traitor was... confusing.

Specially when its in the context of an untrusted diplomatic way.

I didnt give GoW any false info really, i practically didnt give them any info at all.

meh, doesnt matter much. maybe Trip's team will make a big deal of it.
could make life interesting eventually.

	12-02-2003 05:15									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How is your case going Ninot? Judgement day, any day ?

	12-02-2003 05:18									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat How is your case going Ninot? Judgement day, any day ?

well i have been wrongfully found guilty. Anyone WITH sense can see as much.

My life is at the mercy of the high priest and the Great Lord Togas at this moment.

Surely they have more sense than my persecutors(yes, i know what word im using).

	12-02-2003 05:34									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sorry to hear that compadre. Wish I could help.
Haven't been in court lately so I didn't know.
Neither have I watched any executions lately.
I'll come and watch your execution, if you like me to!

Then you can come in mine... It will be just like birthdays, but kinda opposite. Uh, well... I can invite you to mine, but you can't come, you see. Ok, just 'pop' by, or 'roll' in, any day you wish.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 12-02-2003 at 06:35

	12-02-2003 06:31									#8
	Re: Diplomatic talks with Trip Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Aidun Adamada, perhaps you should talk to Ghenghis about this and try to avoid war between those two. For me personally, I wouldn't like to get into a war with GoW now we have such a good relationship with them. Aidun Cian the Older

UnOrthO (pleasant supprise) PMmed me today to chat about some stuff. He asked me a bit about the conflicts we had with GoW (I gave the normal answer - "Miscommunication, some feathers ruffled the wrong way; probably won't happen again") and mentioned that he might become our contact on GoW's side. I'm gonna drum up a conversation on this subject with him -- see what he's gotta say about the issue. For all it's worth, UnOrthO's someone who I get along very well with, and he'll probably be more of an internal force on his team than Panzer was, so I think it'd be a good thing, though I'm not sure that others will agree with me...

Anyway, just wanted to say that I'm getting on with it. I'll try to keep talking to UnOrthO/Panzer/Ghengis and feel them out on the issue -- getting into a war with GoW'd be the worst thing we could do right now :-\.

As for the chat posted above -- nice work Aidun . One thing we might want to consider -- we know Trip's not above lying, and it's likely that what he's telling us is at least embelleshed -- I doubt he's totally innocent of all charges in this ND conflict .

-- adaMada

	12-02-2003 07:28									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why is he called Trip anyway?

	12-02-2003 08:48									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Is Trip unaware of ongoing GoW/Vox negotiations right now?

It is possible that these negotiations are consuming the attention of GoW right now and they are not devoting the time or energy to the northern situation because of their desire to contact GS.

	12-02-2003 18:43									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ninot Seeing my name in there as a traitor was... confusing. Specially when its in the context of an untrusted diplomatic way. I didnt give GoW any false info really, i practically didnt give them any info at all. meh, doesnt matter much. maybe Trip's team will make a big deal of it. could make life interesting eventually.

Ninot, I apologise, if I have given Trip the image that you are a traitor, but I have explicitly said
"He has talked "wrongly" to GoW, while he did not intend to do so." and "It was rubbish talk, not to be taken seriously".
The wrongly between " " means that it is not really true: you haven't and Isaid explicitly that you didn't intend to do so.
And next: rubbish talk should not be take seriously: what you have said should not be taken seriously.

Anyway, if you feel I have talked wrongly to Trip, I apologise, it the only thing I can do.

Aidun Cian the Older

	13-02-2003 06:52									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Please for the love of Togas, stop saying this one is trustworthy or that one is....no one is. Trip is no more trustworthy that Unortho or ND or Nimitz, etc.

	13-02-2003 21:33									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Trip goes around now saying he just got a triple alliance with us and GoW agaist ND... Is this confirmed by our despot?

	13-02-2003 22:02									#14
	Remove this text

This is not confirmed, it's Lux Propoganda. We may, indeed, get involved in some measure, but we have not agreed officially to anything other than to use diplomatic means to try to make peace.

--Togas

	13-02-2003 22:27									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Trip is being an idiot... he's actually THREATENING Borc now with ND having 5 swordsmen sitting next to is his city

Trip has told Borc that a triple alliance of Lux, GoW, and RP will destroy ND if ND even attacks Lux's one city.

I think the proper response would be for us to go to ND and tell them a piece of the truth: Trip is overplaying his hand BIGTIME... there is no alliance between Lux and GoW or Lux and RP. We have no trouble with Lux's border city being razed to the ground in return for the offense of building it in the first place.

Then we tell ND that we DO have a problem with ND wiping out Lux completely and would like to see a peaceful settlement found beyond that one city. That military conquest beyond that one city is a dire security threat to RP Team and Glory of War (no matter what GoW might be lying to ND about).

	15-02-2003 00:04									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Chat with Trip. Feb 14 2003 17:45 GMT

First part: Apolyton global channel

quote: Session Start: Fri Feb 14 18:45:55 2003 Session Ident: #apolyton * Now talking in #apolyton * Topic is 'Apolyton.net Channel - RON Contest Answers (not really) - Join us....' * Set by ACS_MarkG on Fri Feb 14 15:13:24 [Trip] heya Oliver [[RP]_OliverFA] good morning/afternoon Trip [Trip] wish it were good * [RP]_OliverFA is now known as OliverFA [OliverFA] Well maybe they are. I see you are running for consul [Trip] yep [Trip] don't know if I'll make it into the top 3, but I'll try [OliverFA] with a bit of luck you can get a seat [Ignorance] strerror(ENOFOOD); [Trip] pershaps [Trip] er [Trip] perhaps, even [Trip] we'll see [OliverFA] strerror? Do we have some C programmers here? [OliverFA] Anyway things are getting interest in both games [OliverFA] The interest in the first turns of the ISDG will rise once we see our starting position [Trip] may programmers ;P [Trip] yes, probably [Trip] I will do my best to argue for what I think we need to do [OliverFA] Do you have an idea right now or are you waiting to see our starting position? [OliverFA] I confess that I want to see the starting position first [Trip] really depends on what teams may be near by [Trip] if we get a RP type position, then it doesn't matter [Trip] if we get a Lux position, we'll have to be careful [OliverFA] I guess we will have to be careful anyway... [OliverFA] We are learning lots of thing from the internal game! [OliverFA] [Trip] :P [Trip] RP has nothing to worry about [Trip] unless there's a barbarian camp on a 1 tile island nearby [OliverFA] I think that RP would do well to worry [Trip] GoW may be in trouble though [OliverFA] Well, in my opinion if one team gets too powerful it is bad for all the others [Trip] I'm worried that both Lux and GoW may fall [OliverFA] of course, not for the one with the militar supremacy... [OliverFA] If Lux and GoW fail I see very difficult that RP can stand against ND [Trip] I predict that ND will have about 8 Swordsmen in 10 turns, 5 of them veterans [OliverFA] That's a very big army in these times!!! [OliverFA] I don't like it [Trip] if Lux falls within that time, GoW will be destroyed as well * Eepa is now known as Eepafk [OliverFA] I thougt GoW were called warmongers because they liked to build big armies... * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) [OliverFA] Well if you really belive that you should try to convince GF here present [Trip] hehe [Trip] what do you think I've been doing [Trip] GoW doesn't have much of an army right now [OliverFA] mmmmmmmmmmmmm [Trip] about the same as Lux [OliverFA] making campaign for the ISDG game? [Trip] maybe a couple more spearmen [Trip] perhaps [OliverFA] But how did they manage to build an army superior to you two? You don't seem to have been doing much of REX strategy by the scores [Trip] we would have had 4 cities in 1 turn [Trip] 5 in 6 more [Trip] and 6 cities in about 10 or 12 [Trip] [OliverFA] So you were really rexing... [Trip] I would say yes [OliverFA] But in strange way. Unless you like to "fly under the radar" as lot of people like to call it [Trip] that was the plan [Trip] wasn't expecting ND for another 15 turns [OliverFA] oh I see [Trip] they picked a good time [Trip] well, for them :P [OliverFA] Maybe ND built their army because they felt treated by threee surrounding teams [Trip] probably [Trip] they don't have very good land [OliverFA] and were afraid of being attacked by the three at once [OliverFA] good enough to build several swordsmen! [Trip] yep [Trip] if ND gets Lux and GoW, who knows what comes next [OliverFA] I wouldn't like to know that, because I'm afraid I know the answer [Trip] let's hope we don't have to find out :x [OliverFA] I hope ND understand that getting a team so early would not benefit how the other teams see them [Trip] they don't seem to care [Trip] I offered them a favorable deal for peace, but they aren't willing to negotiate [OliverFA] I really hope. War is no good for me. More militar units mean less workers and less peaceful building plans [Trip] Darekill said they want the unconditional surrender of Lux and any who stand in their way [OliverFA] unconditional surrender? [OliverFA] what does that mean? [Trip] we give them everything we have :P [OliverFA] but that does not benefit you in any way [Trip] exactly :P [OliverFA] an strange deal [Trip] destruction or unconditional surrender [OliverFA] well if i had to pick between these two i would pick destruction. At least if they are going to take me they will have to fight for it [Trip] yep [Trip] I agree [OliverFA] anyway we have very good diplomats in out team. I hope they can manage to convince ND [Trip] I don't think it will help at all [Trip] Darekill said: "You can send the turn now, there is nothing you can do to stopp the war. The only way i can think of, is an unconditional surrender which i wouldn't do if i were you. [Trip] " [OliverFA] Probably he was exagerating a bit * Aidun-busy is now known as Aidun-comer [Trip] I doubt it [Trip] they've been committed to this for a while [OliverFA] you seem so convinced * settler2 has joined #apolyton * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2) [OliverFA] maybe you get positively surprised

	15-02-2003 00:26									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Second part (private chat):

quote: Session Start: Fri Feb 14 19:11:40 2003 Session Ident: Trip Session Ident: Trip (Trip-@inge68092.halls.colostate.edu) [Trip] technically, we're already at war [OliverFA] Hi [OliverFA] Technically [Trip] yes [OliverFA] That means that they have attacked? [Trip] we destroyed their scout [OliverFA] oh... I bet they got angry at that [Trip] perhaps... they probably expected it though [Trip] they just got the turn [OliverFA] so they have to play now [Trip] yep [Trip] their turn [OliverFA] May i ask if you have city walls? [Trip] we don't [OliverFA] that would make more difficult to them to take your city [OliverFA] oh so bad... [Trip] we abandoned the city [OliverFA] No city now? [Trip] no city [OliverFA] I hope this is enough for them [OliverFA] They claimed that the city was too close to their border [Trip] like I said, I got a PM from Darekill [Trip] he said that he wants total conquest of Lux and anyone who stands in their way [OliverFA] and the PM said that nothing you could do would make them change their opinion... [Trip] yep [Trip] I was willing to offer a city, a tech, 100 gold, military occupation, etc. [OliverFA] As i said this is not a good movement in my opinion [Trip] it's their decision... [Trip] no one can stop them [OliverFA] the other team's opinion about them will suffer badly from this [OliverFA] specially being the only Apolyton foreigners [Trip] they don't seem to care [Trip] I guess that isn't important to them [OliverFA] I bet that if they continue with this attitude even the most reluctant to war in RP and GoW will change their minds [Trip] I don't know [Trip] we'll see [Trip] I'm trying to get GoW to join us... otherwise both of us will fall [OliverFA] GoW like to go to war. They should be easy to convince [Trip] they don't want to be destroyed [OliverFA] Personally I feel that ND cheated to us for signing this NaP just a few turns before attacking you [Trip] if they feel that they're safe from ND if they don't join Lux, then they may not join [Trip] they were trying to make sure they were safe [OliverFA] They are not safe. ND will attack them if only because they are called "Glory of War" [Trip] most likely [Trip] GoW has much to fear from a super power ND [Trip] if not now, then later [OliverFA] ND want part of the lands that we clam for Spain. They will no doubt get them if they get too powerful [OliverFA] I have to go away for a few minutes. Be back soon [Trip] okay [chat about the ISDG consul election after that]