12-02-2003 13:19									#31
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The fact that it was filmed on dv shows, at least in the low res version (the only one I have the patience to download).

	12-02-2003 14:18									#32
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Thanks for the comments monolith, and I commend you on guessing my favourite director (though I've only seen Mulholland Drive 4 times, and still haven't decided if I like it.) You're on the right lines with Blue Velvet, but think more Lost Highway.

A bit of background to the film (i.e. time to wheel out the justifications and excuses)...
We were told to make a 3 minute film about a telephone conversation. Although I had the script done quite early it was easily a 7-10 minute script, and I didn't really plan the film, just shot and edited the thing in a week.

Its apparent utter lack of coherense is partly due to having to cut the film down to 3 and a half minutes, though the original script doesn't have much more in the way of plot

I know the sound sucks, no imagination whatsoever, it took 15 minutes the afternoon I had to hand it in. Easily the worst thing about the film I think. It's not an alarm clock btw, it's a hastily downloaded sound of an old-school phone.

Glad you liked the editing, thats what I am most fond of in the film, particularly as it's my first attempt.

Good point about the cinematography also. Very little thought really put into it, and I left most of the composition to a friend. It would look much less DV like if I had bothered with proper lighting, but I didn't.

Personally, for the amount of effort put into it I'm quite pleased with the result. I'm thinking of re-editing the whole thing to more like the original plan, I think a little more time for the audience to digest what's going down would make the randomness a little more palatable, though it may just make it more boring. Also some haf-decent sound design would make the whole thing way more watchable, and possibly even add to the meaning of the images.

Oh there is meaning in there, somewhere. It seems to have gotten a little lost since the idea's conception, but watching it it means something to me, which is enough to make me happy.

A million thanks for the honesty Monolith, it was long overdue a slagging off. I look forward to hearing your comments on the other project, which is much more conventional but was shot fairly well on 16mm, and at least has a bit of effort put into it.

	12-02-2003 14:23									#33
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no problem graag - the most useful advice is the most honest!
GET RID OF THAT PHONE! For maybe a minute I could stand listening to it, but not for three (I found myself muting the film) and for GOD'S SAKE not for 7!

	12-02-2003 14:34									#34
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No **** not for 7 minutes! The phone doesn't actually run the whole 3 mins, in fact you missed a fairly nice sound I created as an experiment a while ago, which runs over the last half of the film. It doesn't really add much, but its a lot better than that friggin phone.

	12-02-2003 14:41									#35
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Let me guess - your second favorite director is Aranofsky?

	12-02-2003 14:52									#36
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Yikes! Not at all. I hope my film didn't seem that shallow, or is it just the similarity in surnames?
Pi is stylishly shot Lynch wannabe all over with none of the depth, Requiem is a decent adaptation of a very good book, let down but it's utter lack of characterisation.

	12-02-2003 17:12									#37
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Oh god, I'm already biased while the film is still downloading. I shouldn't have read the rest of the thread.

Anyway, clear, objective criticism possibly coming up.

	12-02-2003 17:32									#38
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Hmm.

I'm a big fan of surrealist filmmakers from Bunuel to Lynch and Ozon, and I certainly don't mind disconnected images, tint changes and strange lighting/sound effects (heck, Tarkovski's Solaris is one of my favourite films of all time!), but what I percieve your piece lacks is meaning. Not, necessarily, in the "what is the deep, underlying meaning of this entire film", but each single device- what are they for? What are you trying to convey about fire by making those sections colour rather than black and white? What about the mindset of the character is brought forward by showing him walk along the carpet before getting out of bed? Why does he look out of the window twice? What's the purpose of the final match trick? Why is it relevant to understanding the mindset of the main character? Subtlety is fine, but I'm not sure you've even got a clear purpose in mind.

It seems to me that a lot of what you've done basically revolves around doing film-based tricks for no reason whatsoever, without psychological insight, and since the scenography and lighting wasn't really all that special (underlit looking out the window scene notwithstanding) I'm afraid comparisons with hacks like Aronofsky and Fincher are inevitable.

However, I think you've certainly got a nice, experimental mindset, I quite like the colour/balck and white changes, the phone wouldn't be annoying if it seemed more than a pasted-on soundclip (I realise you're not a sound editor by any means, so okay) and the film seems reasonably paced, which to me is the basis of all good filmmaking.

I think you need to work on your scripts, think more about why you're using each effect, be more parsimonious about your filming choices. Not just shoot a load of film and try to edit it together afterwards, which it feels like you've done here.

	12-02-2003 18:39									#39
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on the plus side - I did like looking through the door - with the white light streaming in. That looked good, at the very least.

And don't beat up on aranofsky! Pi was wicked cool!

	12-02-2003 18:42									#40
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Also - quit smoking and shave you rapscalllion rebel!!!!!

	12-02-2003 20:59									#41
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that haircut says this to me: "i'm a ghetto-latino kid who thinks he's cool by having long hair and blares bass music down the street while driving around in a toyota camry with yellow speed-strips painted on - to make it go faster."

	12-02-2003 21:01									#42
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I like Bass music.

	12-02-2003 21:05									#43
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I meant more regular (bad) rap music, in which the bass has been cranked up on shitty speakers whom the driver things are good, resulting in a crackly and annoying "thump-a thump-a thump-a thump" growing and slowly dissipating in your ears as you hear the car go by.
In essence, music that was never intended to be used for a purpose being audibly molested.

	12-02-2003 21:21									#44
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I like the moment when "the man" wakes up , as well as the last part from when you pull the match out of your mouth. That is, the first few seconds and the last few. The contrast with color for the match scenes is very nice also...

Apart from those bits it is quite incoherent. A good bunch of filmographic "effects" with little purpose.

The most annoying is the way too omnipresent and monotonous sound. Is that mobile supposed to make the sound?

Oh yes, and what's this guy doing, fully clothed, in the middle of the day, lying on his bed?

	12-02-2003 21:31									#45
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I too found the position he was in a bit odd. Like a pharaoh in a sarcophagus. I figured there was a point to it, but that was never made. If I was dealing with someone waking up, I would have made the whole scene a lot more intimate. say, get the guy in his pjc, under the sheets, curled up into a fetal position, laying on his side, his head aggresively pushed into his pillow. Camera shot would be close up of his face, and then a slow zoom out while panning to the right, showing the rest of his body.

	13-02-2003 06:36									#46
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Thanks for the comments Buckie, very useful also.
You raise some good points, and my reading is that your main critisism (along with monolith) is that there just isn't any meaning in it. I won't bother to try and explain the meaning I percieve in the devices I used, as it'd just be bullshitting, other than to say the script meant something to me when I wrote it.

The trouble for me with filmmaking (and any/all creative activites for that matter) is striking a balance between planning it all out and letting my subconcious do its own thing at the same time.

I recently read a quote from Picasso (I think) "I never calculate. That is why those that do, calculate so less accurately than I".

I dig this. Returning to the Aronofsky debate, I'd say he is a calculater through and through. To call him a hack is a bit harsh, methinks, as I believe he is passionate about what he does, but I see him as a technician rather than an artist. I see myself (don't laugh) as an artist, if an aspiring and pretencious one.

And here we come to the difficulty. How do you plan meaning? When I was writing the script I tried to see the film in my mind, and some of the cinematography does reflect that. I tried to be as flexible as possible, I like the Cassavetes/Jazz filmmaking thing where you just let things happen, allow the film to evolve. I don't think there is anything inherantly wrong with this, but that my failure to really connect with the script and the lack of preparation is what made the randomness more crappy. With a better framework I think it would have worked better.

Also, allow me to reiterate that it was planned to be twice as long, so what you end up with is a bunch imagery and iconography slammed together, with no room for the viewer to digest what is going down.

I find it very encouraging that both you and monolith liked the editing and pacing, this is certainly the best thing about it for me. Hell, I'd be happy working as an editor!

The question now is do I spend the next week re-editing a longer, better version (it was edited in 3 days, during which I had to learn the editing software also)
and redesigning the sound, or put it down to experience and move on?

	13-02-2003 06:44									#47
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Thanks also for the comments Mercator, seems you are largely in agreement with the others.

Allow me to apologise once more for the sound, I know it is terrible, but it is better than nothing. Or maybe it isn't. Hmm.

Yes, the mobile is (unfortunately) supposed to be making that sound, it was the best I could find the afternoon I had to hand the project in.

I did have quite a lot of plans for the sound, just didn't have time in the end. I think a cohesive sound design would really help bring the visuals together, the difference in reactions to the other project I just completed when you see it with and without sound it astonishing.
Without (decent) sound it is impossible to engage with the mood of a film, as sound just as much as image defines mood.

	13-02-2003 06:45									#48
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You should give yourself a week of good working time to make a proper short movie, of any order. Take shot after shot in angle after angle, and then use only what works, and what makes sense to you.

	13-02-2003 06:48									#49
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I should confess that I have no idea why he is lying fully clothed on the bed, supposedly asleep (with a burning cigarette in hand, please note).

Maybe it has something to do with the strange moments when I'm sleep deprived (i.e. most of the time recently) and feel the need to lie down, then just drift into a semi-concious dreamworld. I think that's basically what the film is about to me.

And hey, monolith, don't be knocking my Camry, less I come round there and drive by your place. Man that bass would shake yo house down.

And I do think the long hair is cool. I mean it's a fact, deal with it.

	13-02-2003 06:52									#50
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 You should give yourself a week of good working time to make a proper short movie, of any order. Take shot after shot in angle after angle, and then use only what works, and what makes sense to you.

I quite agree
But since I only started the week before it had to be handed in, that wasn't an option. But next time...

And I'll be sure to post the script for the next film I make, I think it'd be good to get some other people's thoughts before shooting. Much like the finished product, everyone I showed the script for A Man Wakes Up lied through their teeth when I asked for opinions/criticism.

Out of curiosity, what sort of films do you count as favourites?

	13-02-2003 07:20									#51
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My favorite films include:
the thief of bagdad (1924)
life is beautiful
brazil
blade runner
amelie
vertigo
seven samurai
stuff like that, in general...

	13-02-2003 07:30									#52
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Hmm, not at all dissimilar to myself... just saw life is beautiful last week, amazing.

You think it's worth rediting it? Having seen the first cut would you bother to d/l a new version?