16-04-2003 10:28									#271
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX I guess Radek hasn't put it up yet. I can email it to you, if you'd like.

Thanks Zargon, but seeing that I had no save to play with, I went to bed earlier yesterday
I'd like to ask however Radek or ZargonX, that whoever is playing the turn, could maybe post the save at least, even if not the whole Chronicle update? I'd be perfectly happy if you just automatically forward the save to me, but I figured others may be interested in getting it too, hence my request.

	16-04-2003 17:03									#272
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Thanks Zargon, but seeing that I had no save to play with, I went to bed earlier yesterday I'd like to ask however Radek or ZargonX, that whoever is playing the turn, could maybe post the save at least, even if not the whole Chronicle update? I'd be perfectly happy if you just automatically forward the save to me, but I figured others may be interested in getting it too, hence my request.

I usually post the save as soon as technically possible. Yesterday, it was an exception - the day developed in a bit unexpected way for me and I had no time to do it until late in the evening.

	17-04-2003 07:55									#273
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Playing the turn...

Log of turn 670 BC:

-Named new Panama merc "Mercus Aurelius"
-Mercus SE-SE-SE
-Leopold SE-S-W
-Charlie SE-S-W
-New Legopolis merc named "Merc Twain"
-Twain S
-Jack mines
-Mercedes W-NW and fortifies.
-Dycedarg fortifies
-George NE and mines.
-Frank W
-GG SW-S-E
-Troy NW-NW-NW-N
-Alexander NW-NW
-Silver S, prepping to head for the Lonely mountain.
-Merciless SE-E-NE
-Panama set to temple
-Karina laborer is already set
-Zargonia laborer is already set
-Dye Fields laborer is set
-Legopolis set to temple

After turn:

-That stupid barb horse by Karina fled into the hills.
-Silver two 2 damage after being attacked by a barb horse.

	18-04-2003 02:53									#274
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MB's orders for 650:
Jack to road
Robbie to also road
Charlie to clear jungle
Leopold to also clear jungle
Frank to road
Rover to road
Move Farmerville worker from desert mine to roaded rivered grass SE of the city
Edit: Also, move a Jackson hill laborer to the coast for an extra commerce. This shouldn't affect the barracks build time; if it does, leave this for next turn.

Last edited by Kloreep on 18-04-2003 at 04:02

	18-04-2003 03:47									#275
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MA orders for 650:

-Silver NE; talking it over with Sharpe, it would be safer to move further into the hills to rest, just in case anyone else is lurking out there ready to strike...
-Alexander hold tight for one more turn, to see if any barbs will pop out of hte fog
-Merciless N-NW-fortify
-Mercus SE-S-SE
-Troy N-NE
-GG S-S-SE
-New Dye Fields warrior NW

Last edited by ZargonX on 18-04-2003 at 07:18

	18-04-2003 15:17									#276
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Plans for 650BC:

1) Mercus Aurelius to move SE-S-E

2) Leopold & Charlie to start clearing jungle

3) Merc Twain to move S-S-S
then S-SE-SE and to the Tarzania site

4) Robbie to road

5) Jack to road move NW, then mine & road
Kloreep, are you sure? We will be wasting one worker-turn this way... would it not be better to move Jack NW and then mine & road?

6) Mercedes to move NE-N and fortify in Jackson

7) the regular Merc from Jackson to move S-SW-SW
then to our Southern provinces (Sharpehaven?), to allow our warriors to return to Panama or Jackson for upgrades

8) Frank to road

9) G.G. to move S-S-SE SW-S-E
Zargon, why do we not keep exploring as far into the ocean as possible - i.e. SW-S-E?

10) Troy to move N-NE
11) Silver to move NE
Zargon's orders...

12) Alexander to skip turn

13) Rover to road

14) leave Jackson labourers as they are for one more turn
14) reassign the Jackson labourer from a mined hill to coast
does not delay barracks, gains us one more commerce
sorry, Kloreep - I did not realize we'd already be half-way through the build

15) reassign Farmerville labourer from the mined desert SW to the roaded riverbank grassland SE of the city

Addition by Kloreep: 16) Change Jackson's build to a galley

Last edited by Kloreep on 21-04-2003 at 01:17

	18-04-2003 20:52									#277
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quote: 9) G.G. to move S-S-SE Zargon, why do we not keep exploring as far into the ocean as possible - i.e. SW-S-E?

You are correct. Let's do that instead

	19-04-2003 01:28									#278
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack 5) Jack to road (???) Kloreep, are you sure? We will be wasting one worker-turn this way... would it not be better to move Jack NW and then mine & road?

We'd get one more commerce if they both mine.

Still, at 100% science in such a large empire, it shouldn't matter too much. Let's go with Jack NW and mine.

quote: 14) leave Jackson labourers as they are for one more turn

You're sure it'll delay the barracks? Jackson should be at 22 shields next turn; 9 shields over the next two turns will total 40 shields. Unless corruption rises somehow, I think it will be fine.

	21-04-2003 01:13									#279
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Whoops, I forgot to add that Jackson should change its build to a Galley per the new plans for the city. I'll edit vondrack's post, in case he isn't back by the time we play the turn.

	21-04-2003 23:13									#280
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius 10. Rover started to road (why there? it's not a bonus grass)

Rover moved there to chop a forest, and now it's grass; the road is to save a worker turn in the future, when a worker improves that tile further.

MB's orders for 630:
Jack to mine
New Logville worker W (then chop)
New Farmerville settler NE, heading to Tarzania
Galley complete in Jackson; change build to barracks again.
Farmerville settler complete; change build to Temple
Dye Fields builds a warrior; change build to Temple
Logville worker complete; change build to Temple

	24-04-2003 09:41									#281
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Well shoot, my orders are gone. I guess I'd better try and remember what they were...

	24-04-2003 23:56									#282
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MA Orders 630:

-Mercus S-S-S
-Merc Twin S-SE-S
-Troy S-E, to check to southern jungle
-Silver fortify
-Alexander S-S, no more hiding our bold horses!
-New Dye Fields warrior (Dyeguard?) NW, to Jackson to upgrade
-New Jackson galley E-N-NW
-GG S-S-E

	25-04-2003 18:59									#283
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Plans for 610BC:

1) G.G. to move S-SE-E, then S-S-S, SW-S-SE

2) Frank to move N-W, then mine & road

3) Mercurio to move W
then W, SW, W, W, NW, N, replacing Merky Merc

4) DyeHard to move NW, then N-N-NE to Jackson for upgrade

5) George to move S-SE-SE, then E, then road
building a road to the Tarzania site

6) Settler to move E

7) Troy to move E

8) Jimbo to road

9) Rover to move SE-SE, then road

10) Conan to fortify

11) Alexander to move S

12) Merc Twain to move W-W-W, then fortify

13) Gaul to move NW-N-NW

14) Forkman to move N, to Panama for upgrade

15) Zargonia to poprush the Temple build

16) make sure the new Logville labourer works the unimproved riverbank grassland.

17) send 120 gold to Vox Controli
"offer" and "accept"... still subject to the poll result, but as the current interim result is 5 "yes", 2 "yes, but" (actually, 6:1, as the secrecy clause Kloreep asked for has already been incorporated), I consider it unlikely the result might change. Unless there is a dramatic change, I say let's go ahead and send the money - we are late by 1 turn compared to the proposal anyway...

	25-04-2003 21:06									#284
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17) OK, but I'd like to see the trade proposal sent to Vox before we send the money. They should at least know why are they receiving money from us Since the initial 120 is the payment for the WM we can send it anyway, but for the second part of the deal (tech+loan) I'd like to see a signed deal.
Since I will be away for the next 5 days, could someone take care of this, please?

	25-04-2003 21:08									#285
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius 17) OK, but I'd like to see the trade proposal sent to Vox before we send the money. They should at least know why are they receiving money from us Since the initial 120 is the payment for the WM we can send it anyway, but for the second part of the deal (tech+loan) I'd like to see a signed deal. Since I will be away for the next 5 days, could someone take care of this, please?

Will do later today (before going to bed).

	26-04-2003 01:05									#286
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OK, thanks.

Have a nice weekend

	26-04-2003 20:51									#287
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Comments on Plans for 610BC:

1) G.G. to move S-SE-E, then S-S-S, SW-S-SE
Agreed

2) Frank to move N-W, then mine & road
Agreed

3) Mercurio to move W
then W, SW, W, W, NW, N, replacing Merky Merc
Agreed

4) DyeHard to move NW, then N-N-NE to Jackson for upgrade
Agreed

5) George to move S-SE-SE, then E, then road
building a road to the Tarzania site
Agreed

6) Settler to move E
Agreed

7) Troy to move E
Or NE - NE would be more protection but won't see as much, E would show more, but that would be revealed anyway if Troy moves onto the mountain.

8) Jimbo to road
Agreed

9) Rover to move SE-SE, then road
Hmm, wouldn't this be a good opportunity to irrigate that cow instead?

10) Conan to fortify
Agreed, but we had best be careful for barbs from the hilly northern area.

11) Alexander to move S
Agreed

12) Merc Twain to move W-W-W, then fortify
Agreed

13) Gaul to move NW-N-NW
Either that or NW-N-W.

14) Forkman to move N, to Panama for upgrade
Agreed

15) Zargonia to poprush the Temple build
Agreed

16) make sure the new Logville labourer works the unimproved riverbank grassland.
Agreed

17) send 120 gold to Vox Controli
Agreed

Last edited by Sharpe on 26-04-2003 at 21:07

	26-04-2003 21:32									#288
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 7) Troy to move E Or NE - NE would be more protection but won't see as much, E would show more, but that would be revealed anyway if Troy moves onto the mountain.

My only intention was to make sure that there is no barb camp near the Tarzania site. Once we found Tarzania (and finish Library in Red Bricks), we will be able to "see" everything in that area and Troy will be free to move somewhere else. Which will be easiest, if he goes E now and then E again - from that moment on, he will be able to use his mobility, unlike if stuck in thick jungle (moving NE, NE).

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 9) Rover to move SE-SE, then road Hmm, wouldn't this be a good opportunity to irrigate that cow instead?

Well, this is probably a question for Kloreep, but I believe connecting Logville has a higher priority (we need to connect Logville to our road network because of the 2-pop rush we plan there) than speeding up the pop growth in Karina. Besides, focusing on the road is safer in that the road will be built deep enough in our "visible" territory, thus less vulerable to surprise barb attack.

Kloreep?

	27-04-2003 01:57									#289
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Oops, my fault - I was referring to Silver not Troy... silly me - get can't my horses straight.

	27-04-2003 02:07									#290
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On #9: I'd rather irrigate (and then road) the cow. The road won't be any longer (and it can still complete around the time of the rush), and I'd like Karina to grow more. So Rover to Move S-S, then irrigate, then road (then E)

Also, add: Logger to chop the forest (then road)
Change Jackson's build to a barracks

	27-04-2003 21:11									#291
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Plans for 590BC:

1) G.G. to move S-S-S, then SW-S-SE

2) Mercurio to move W
then SW, W, W, NW, N, replacing Merky Merc

3) Giordano Bruno to move N-NW-NW

4) DyeHard to move N-N-NE to Jackson for upgrade

5) Mercus Aurelius to move E to the Tarzania site

6) George to move E, then road
building a road to the Tarzania site

7) Settler to move NE, then E, then found Tarzania

8) Merc Twain to fortify

9) Troy to move E, then S-S and elsewhere

10) Rover to move irrigate, then road

11) Alexander to move W-N
making sure it can engage the barb horse, if he closes Karina

12) MercG to move S, guarding Rover

13) Frank to mine, then road

14) Forkman to move NE, to Panama for upgrade

15) Gaul to move N, then N again, then fortify

16) Zargonia to start building a Harbour

17) Howard to attack the barb NW

18) Robbie to move NW, then road
will finish the road on the same turn as Jack's mine will be finished, possibly saving one worker-turn

19) Red Bricks to start building a Temple

20) make sure the new Logville labourer works the roaded riverbank grassland, not the mined desert.

21) Silver to move N, then N-E

22) reassign Jackson labourer from a fully developed hill to a coast
will not delay the Barracks build, while yielding 1 more gold

	28-04-2003 00:11									#292
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I'd rather Robbie move E-SE-SE, then clear jungle for Dye Fields. That will help the city grow and be productive; Jack can road himself off the hill.

	28-04-2003 08:00									#293
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Comments on Plans for 590BC (plus part of my manipulative plans to get to King level sooner :

1) G.G. to move S-S-S, then SW-S-SE
Agreed on S-S-S, but I would seriously think about W-S-E for the turn immediately afterwards.

2) Mercurio to move W
then SW, W, W, NW, N, replacing Merky Merc
Agreed

3) Giordano Bruno to move N-NW-NW
Agreed

4) DyeHard to move N-N-NE to Jackson for upgrade
Agreed

5) Mercus Aurelius to move E to the Tarzania site
Agreed

6) George to move E, then road
building a road to the Tarzania site
Agreed

7) Settler to move NE, then E, then found Tarzania
Agreed

8) Merc Twain to fortify
Agreed

9) Troy to move E, then S-S and elsewhere
I wonder if west might be better to uncover the fog again.

10) Rover to move irrigate, then road
Agreed, though we should keep an eye on those new barb horses.

11) Alexander to move W-N
making sure it can engage the barb horse, if he closes Karina
Agreed

12) MercG to move S, guarding Rover
Agreed - hopefully that horse doesn't move off and then come toward Karina from the NW though.

13) Frank to mine, then road
Agreed

14) Forkman to move NE, to Panama for upgrade
Suggest N instead - keep him on the hills to perhaps avoid disease?

15) Gaul to move N, then N again, then fortify
Aren't we putting him on the mountain too? Or is that too dangerous with the worker now nearby?

16) Zargonia to start building a Harbour
Agreed

17) Howard to attack the barb NW
Agreed

18) Robbie to move NW, then road
will finish the road on the same turn as Jack's mine will be finished, possibly saving one worker-turn
Agree with Kloreep - send Robbie to help out with the DyeFields jungle

19) Red Bricks to start building a Temple
Agreed

20) make sure the new Logville labourer works the roaded riverbank grassland, not the mined desert.
Agreed

21) Silver to move N, then N-E
Agree on N - we wouldn't want to risk an attack yet except if Silver was on a mountain. Let's see what the barb horses do before deciding on the next few turns.

22) reassign Jackson labourer from a fully developed hill to a coast
will not delay the Barracks build, while yielding 1 more gold
Agreed

Additional Comments:
GS continues to stalk us in the points total - we should keep an eye on their score (assuming we don't get the map that is) and see if it drops or not.

Clearly there is at least one barb camp in the south, probably between the southern horse and southern cow. Hopefully not many more horses appear. We should upgrade those warriors to swords soon and send them down south to clear out any camps (I trust swords more than horses due to the terrain and the additional firepower).

	28-04-2003 11:01									#294
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 9) Troy to move E, then S-S and elsewhere I wonder if west might be better to uncover the fog again.

The Settler will be moving to the tile W of Troy, so there is no need to have Troy there, too, to uncover FoW (and the "Tarzania" Merc is following immediately). Let's move the settler first - just for sure... if there is anything showing up, then move Troy W to escort the Settler. But otherwise, there is no need...

quote: 12) MercG to move S, guarding Rover Agreed - hopefully that horse doesn't move off and then come toward Karina from the NW though.

That's why we are moving Silver and Alexander the way we are - if the barb horse moves SW, NW, or N, we attack with Silver (moves N this turn). If he moves anywhere else, we attack with Alexander. Whatever the bad horse does, we should kill him on the turn after this one.

quote: 14) Forkman to move NE, to Panama for upgrade Suggest N instead - keep him on the hills to perhaps avoid disease? 15) Gaul to move N, then N again, then fortify Aren't we putting him on the mountain too? Or is that too dangerous with the worker now nearby?

I guess you have the two units mixed - Forkman is the one closer to Panama - Forkman cannot go N. Besides, I am not 100% sure, but I believe units can die of disease only if left in (the same) jungle for more than one turn... never lost a unit to a jungle disease, if just passing through.

And yes, the intention is to station Gaul on the mountain Forkman has recently left. An observer there is quite important, as he covers (lifts) the FoW for quite a large area that is otherwise inside "our" territory. We will be able to check that single shore tile in two turns with G.G. - and soonafter, the cultural expansion will make it visible permanently.

quote: GS continues to stalk us in the points total - we should keep an eye on their score (assuming we don't get the map that is) and see if it drops or not.

Within like 10 turns, I expect us to start getting ahead again, as we will be gaining lots of new territory through the expansion of our cultural borders (all those Temples).

	28-04-2003 11:11									#295
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As far as I am aware, you cannot lose a unit after only one turn in jungle. If it is possible, I have never, ever seen it happen. He should be safe there for one turn at least, more likely for several (but we don't have to tempt fate).

	28-04-2003 12:27									#296
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX As far as I am aware, you cannot lose a unit after only one turn in jungle. If it is possible, I have never, ever seen it happen. He should be safe there for one turn at least, more likely for several (but we don't have to tempt fate).

Yep, that's what I meant - since we are only MOVING Forkman through jungle, there should be no danger involved at all. Gaul shall be eventually stationed atop a mountain, Forkman keeps moving.

	30-04-2003 13:26									#297
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Plans for 570BC:

1) G.G. to move SW-S-SE

2) Mercurio to move SW
then W, W, NW, N, replacing Merky Merc

3) Giordano Bruno to move NW-W-W

4) DyeHard to skip turn, waiting for upgrade

5) Mercus Aurelius to move NE to the Tarzania site

6) George to road, then mine

7) Settler to move E, then found Tarzania

8) Troy to move S-S

9) Silver to attack NE

10) Alexander to attack S, then move back N

11) MercG to attack NW

12) Forkman to move NE, to Panama for upgrade

13) Gaul to move N, then fortify

14) Howard to move N
going after that camp on The Hammer (he is not and will not be needed as an MP unit in Panama)

18) Robbie to clear jungle

19) Jimbo to move NW-NW, then road & mine

20) make sure the new Karina labourer works a 2-food tile

21) Legopolis to start building a Marketplace
Kloreep's building timeline shows a Settler, but I am going to disagree on this one - every new city we found now throws our plans a little more bit off (due to the OCN corruption biting more and more). We do not really have any extra-viable site to settle ATM, so I would rather have Legopolis operate at maximum pop & shield output, building infrastructure - a Marketplace would add at least 17/2-1=7 gpt (maybe 8, not sure about how the rounding is done). That is MUCH more than we could expect from Kloreepville.

	30-04-2003 23:53									#298
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I still think Kloreepville should be settled, but that can wait for the Panama settler, and Legopolis does need infrastructure. I agree with scrapping the Legopolis settler; let's do a market instead. See the updated Timeline post. (The way we can get 13 shields/turn later on is by working the hill tile that will soon be mined by Jack.)

Edit: Also, bad news; we missed the Temple poprush in Forkmouth. My fault for an incorrect entry in the Timeline... don't know how I got only 1 shield produced in Forkmouth this turn. Not sure what to do... I've updated the timeline with neither rush. I need to look into the possibility of doing it next turn (and also update the Farmerville line, which was incorrect); I'll have to do that later.

Last edited by Kloreep on 01-05-2003 at 00:01

	01-05-2003 10:06									#299
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Edit: Also, bad news; we missed the Temple poprush in Forkmouth. My fault for an incorrect entry in the Timeline... don't know how I got only 1 shield produced in Forkmouth this turn. Not sure what to do... I've updated the timeline with neither rush. I need to look into the possibility of doing it next turn (and also update the Farmerville line, which was incorrect); I'll have to do that later.

My fault as well. I did look at Forkmouth last turn, but mistakenly thought it would have to grow to pop 4 before the rush (not realizing we needed to do a 1-pop rush only). It will perhaps be best to finish it the "hard" way now, aiming at running Forkmouth at high, happy pop...

	13-05-2003 06:32									#300
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Well, the Forkmouth poprush will put the city ahead of non-poprush schedule, so it's probably for the best it was done anyway.

MB plans for 530:
- Jackson finishes Barracks; start building a Merc
- Forkmouth finishes Temple; start building a Barracks
- Settler to found Tarzania. Set build to a warrior for now; we'll figure out the exact build later
- Jimbo to Mine
- Rover to road
- Move new Farmerville pop from the desert to the unimproved grass river (we should continue maximum growth)
- Make sure new RB pop works the grass to the SE (the AI may put it on the mountain, which would be the best inter-turn spot)