12-02-2003 15:57									#1
	Next turn plans Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, since the Discussion to the Chronicle thread has become quite heavy over the time, I believe it's time to get our affairs better organized. The Discussion to the Chronicle shall remain open for comments, suggestions, and error reports regarding the Chronicle itself, but should no longer be used to discuss our short term strategy and plans. That discussion is supposed to be happening here from now on.

	12-02-2003 15:58									#2
	movement/action proposals for 1710BC Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

1) Jason N, then road & mine
2) Jimbo to road
3) Marky Merc S
4) MercG W (then perhaps S-S-S?)
EDIT:
4) MercG SW, attacking the barbarian
--- we can't lose!
5) Gaul SW, attacking the camp
6) Conan N
7) Angus NW
8) change worked tiles in Panama (we forgot to switch to working the newly irrigated plains tile and are still working the unimproved horse hill, suffering from slower than possible growth)
EDIT:
9) Merciless W

Only 7) deserves a comment, I believe - I would take it for granted now that Legos Minor is actually just a big peninsula, leading to "nowhere". Let's have a look as far into the surrounding waters as possible, rounding then the whole western coast of the Legos Minor... there is obviously no hurry...

Last edited by vondrack on 14-02-2003 at 07:03

	13-02-2003 07:46									#3
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1) Jason N, then road & mine
Agreed

2) Jimbo to road
Assuming this is Farmerville settler - if so agreed

3) Marky Merc S
Agreed though you will never catch me calling him that name
4) MercG W (then perhaps S-S-S?)
West now then see if we can attack the barb and then south to find the camp hopefully

5) Gaul SW, attacking the camp
Agreed

6) Conan N
Agreed

7) Angus NW
North might be fine too - we might want to see some of the interior too in case there is a hut or barb camp nearby.

8) change worked tiles in Panama (we forgot to switch to working the newly irrigated plains tile and are still working the unimproved horse hill, suffering from slower than possible growth)
Yeah I noticed that too late too - oh well it won't kill us ...

(scene from the future)

Legopolis 1850 AD

Space Commander Tiberius XXXVIII walks in with a scowl on his face into President Vondrack XXXIX's office.

"Greetings Space Commander what news do you bring?"

"Bad news Mr President - we would have completed our glorious spaceship this year except Panama didn't grow this year. As a result we didn't have enough resources to complete the ship... and worse yet the Roleplayers completed theirs. Here is a message to you from their leader:

Nyah, nyah WE BEAT YOU !!!!

"Curses Space Commander, what went wrong?"

"We have traced through the history of Panama sir... It seems that a mistake was made in 1750 BC when our farmers weren't moved to the new irrigated plains southeast of Panama. Instead they remained working on Horse Hill. That mistake then affected us now and led to our doom!"

"Our doom?"

"Yes sir, just as the Roleplayer spaceship left Earth's orbit the sky started to become dark and the land has started to disintegrate! As well a mysterious message has appeared!"

"What message?"

"Sir, it says.... New Game???"

(Don't worry Radek - I will edit out that story in a few days)

	13-02-2003 09:08									#4
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quote: Instead they remained working on Horse Hill. That mistake then affected us now and led to our doom!"

Well, now you've made me gone and feel really bad about that It was a one time oversight! I was overcome by the thrill of taking the turn! No jury would convict me (I hope!)

But, honestly, I'm sorry I missed that. Promise it won't happen again!

	13-02-2003 09:45									#5
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Of course I am just kidding Zargon - I suspect that all of us missed it! No harm done...

	13-02-2003 14:26									#6
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No worries, Zargon - I made exactly the same mistake after that barb situation around Jackson some time ago. It never hurts (and actually I always do that now) to go carefully through all the city screens and really closely look if what they are doing is what we want them to do, but it's not a big deal, really.

	13-02-2003 17:25									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree with all moves, except 4:

Why not move MercG south? First, the defence bonus is bigger on hills (not that the barbarian had any chance against a mercenary) and second, he'll see much more from the S, SW area, possibly even the camp.

Oh, and one more:
9) Merciless W.

quote: Space Commander Tiberius

I like that

	13-02-2003 17:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I agree with all moves, except 4: Why not move MercG south? First, the defence bonus is bigger on hills (not that the barbarian had any chance against a mercenary) and second, he'll see much more from the S, SW area, possibly even the camp.

Well, the chances of the barbarian warrior killing MercG are nil (MUCH less than 0.018%), so the defense thing can be neglected completely. MercG wil not see "much more", I think. We have already been on that mountain before and we were unable to see more than two tiles away. Also, we will "stay in touch" with the barbarian that is most likely to head for Farmerville... I would prefer not having him get there, as he might mess up our local improvement projects... Let's move MercG W now, then kill the barb (that will likely move W, too - the chances of killing him even across the river will be 99.823%).

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Oh, and one more: 9) Merciless W.

Added, thanks.

	13-02-2003 18:40									#9
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Well, I wanted to move MercG S not to uncover more unexplored area, but to see if we can find the barbarian camp. Moving W to kill the barbarian is equally good, even though I don't think the barbarian has any chance to mess up with our improvements. We could even attack the bastard; not sure about the odds, but it should be a kill.I don't think that there would be a dramatic difference between the options.

	13-02-2003 18:50									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Well, I wanted to move MercG S not to uncover more unexplored area, but to see if we can find the barbarian camp. Moving W to kill the barbarian is equally good, even though I don't think the barbarian has any chance to mess up with our improvements. We could even attack the bastard; not sure about the odds, but it should be a kill.I don't think that there would be a dramatic difference between the options.

I did not mean he would be actually able to pillage anything, but he might force us to move the worker out of schedule or something else that would be annoying... but... you know what? Thinking of it, attacking head on is probably the best way to go. According to the civulator, the chances of MercG killing the barb are 99.497%. Anyone still having doubts?

Due to the heavy Chieftain combat bonus, it's like attacking the poor warrior with a tank...

	14-02-2003 21:19									#11
	movement/action proposals for 1700BC Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

1) Jason to road, then mine
2) Leopold to move NE (YES! North-East! It is very important!)
EDIT:
2) Leopold to move WEST (to chop down the game forest there)
3) Marky Merc S, then W, stationing him in that area
4) MercG S, then SW, S (to uncover that shrouded area ASAP)
5) Gaul N, heading home
6) Conan NW, NW... until he spots the barb camp
7) Angus N, following the coastline
8) Merciless W, then NW and to Legopolis, to fortify there

ad 2) I know it might seem better to mine the horse hill... unfortunately, if we decide to go for the O2E plan, we would have troubles synchronizing Leopold with Robbie, the new worker coming later from Red Bricks. As I gather we are all mostly in favour of a two-wonder plan (whatever the second wonder shall be), it is a must that we move Leopold onto the hill just WEST of Panama and mine it. We will be losing 1gpt because of working this hill and not the horse hill, but we will be able to perfectly synchronize both workers, not wasting their time.

There is still one more possibility I am going to check today, involving cutting that game forest and irriganting afterwards. That was the way to build the Lighthouse on Turn 104. I have to check though. I just hope the save will not make it to us too soon, as I have to leave shortly and will be back only three hours later...

EDIT: after rerunning the sim, correcting the mistake I did earlier (incorrent starting values), it has become apparent that we need to go a very different route. We need to cut the game forest first, irrigating it then (see the table in the O2E thread)

Generally, I believe we should withdraw our exploring units home right after unshrouding all of our continent. We will need them to protect our cities. And as we will not build too much military during O2E, we might better have them where they can do use any good.

Last edited by vondrack on 16-02-2003 at 00:12

	16-02-2003 06:17									#12
	movement/action proposals for 1675BC Tired of ads?

1) Leopold to chop down the game forest (part of the revised O2E plan)
2) Jimbo SE, then mine & road

3) Merciless W and then to Legopolis, to fortify there
4) Marky Merc W, then fortify, watching over the area
5) MercG N, attacking the barbarian (leaving the shrouded area to be uncovered by Gaul)

6) Angus N
7) Conan N, then N again, attacking the camp
8) Gaul N, then N, N, N, N

9) Legopolis to start building a Merc

	17-02-2003 07:04									#13
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1) Leopold to chop down the game forest (part of the revised O2E plan)
OK, if this is required for the O2E plan.

2) Jimbo SE, then mine & road
Agreed

3) Merciless W and then to Legopolis, to fortify there
Agreed

4) Marky Merc W, then fortify, watching over the area
Ok, either on the hill or the mountain is fine.

5) MercG N, attacking the barbarian (leaving the shrouded area to be uncovered by Gaul)
Since this is probably Chieftain, I guess so - can't believe we are attacking a unit on a mountain though (though that 1600% bonus helps)

6) Angus N
N or NE is fine - N if you want to see more of the sea

7) Conan N, then N again, attacking the camp
Agreed

8) Gaul N, then N, N, N, N
Agreed

9) Legopolis to start building a Merc
If your simulation says this is better than settler, ok - but if we find out otherwise later ...

	17-02-2003 22:24									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 4) Marky Merc W, then fortify, watching over the area Ok, either on the hill or the mountain is fine.

Stationing him on that mountain is a good idea. I will move him there on this turn and fortify.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 9) Legopolis to start building a Merc If your simulation says this is better than settler, ok - but if we find out otherwise later ...

Basically, the reason for building a Merc first is that we will let Legopolis grow to pop 4 and later pop 5, thus increasing its shield output, in turn speeding up the unit builds. After one or two initial "rounds", Legopolis will be periodically going from pop 3 to pop 5, spitting a Merc+Settler combo in the end. If we went straight for the Settler, we would make it operate on pop 3-4 level, which would result in slower builds. Have a look at the following table (I do not guarantee it's 100% error free though - this schedule I have not verified by running a simulator based test, unlike the ones for Panama and Jackson).



Can you see how smoothly the combos will be produced? And how perfectly the end of one cycle matches the beginning of another one?

Similarly, for Farmerville, it's better to build a worker now and settler then - the delay in getting the settler is actually three turns. If we order that worker to build a road to the Forkmouth site, we will be able to recoup two turns right after finishing the settler thanks to the faster movement. Not mentioning better gold output from the wheat tile...

OK, plans for 1650BC:

1) Angus NE
2) Marky Merc S, then fortify
3) Conan N, attacking the camp
4) Gaul N
5) MercG E, looking for a barb camp (those warriors must have come from somewhere)
6) Merciless NW to Legopolis, then fortify
7) Jimbo to mine

	18-02-2003 03:13									#15
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I agree with all moves.

quote: Have a look at the following table (I do not guarantee it's 100% error free though - this schedule I have not verified by running a simulator based test, unlike the ones for Panama and Jackson).

I did verify it a while ago, and things were happening exactly like in the table. Being always bigger than 3, Legopolis is building faster and also is producing more commerce. This is the way to go. Building a settler now would be actually a lost on the long run.

	18-02-2003 06:45									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK, plans for 1650BC:

1) Angus NE
Agreed

2) Marky Merc S, then fortify
Agreed

3) Conan N, attacking the camp
Agreed

4) Gaul N
Sure

5) MercG E, looking for a barb camp (those warriors must have come from somewhere)
No, the eastern squares were unfogged only 4 turns ago in Turn 50 - I suggest MercG go north, some of those squares have been fogged for a long while in the jungle plus it will keep him fairly close to Farmerville if a barb pops up nearby the worker or worse yet nearby Legopolis or Jackson.

6) Merciless NW to Legopolis, then fortify
Agreed

7) Jimbo to mine
Agreed

Thanks for the extra info re: Legopolis and Farmerville - as you said there probably are a couple of errors but that chart gives a good overall picture of Legopolis's situation.

	19-02-2003 07:41									#17
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Plans for 1625BC:

1) Angus NE
2) Marky Merc to fortify
3) Conan NW
4) Gaul NE
5) MercG SE, looking for a barb camp
6) new Farmerville worker to road
7) new Red Bricks worker (Robbie) N - part of the O2E plan

ad 3) I would like to move Conan to the Forkmouth area, to cover the new Farmeville worker. If the barbarian follows, let's kill him 1-2 turns later.

ad 4) I believe it will be best to pop the hut on the turn we will discover Map Making, to increase the chance of getting a good (costly) tech. Thus, Gaul has one extra turn to spend on the way there.

ad 5) I intend to move MercG to the easternmost edge of the landmass and let him check every single sea tile he will be able to have a look at (trying to confirm RPers' observations).

	19-02-2003 08:00									#18
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1) Angus NE
Agreed

2) Marky Merc to fortify
Agreed

3) Conan NW
Agreed

4) Gaul NE
Agreed - though if we did get a tech, we would likely get Horseback Riding this time as it is the cheapest tech still available (though Iron Working would be nice of course!)

5) MercG SE, looking for a barb camp
Agreed

6) new Farmerville worker to road
Agreed - in honour of the eastern continent being named "Bob" I suggest we name our new worker - NotBob

7) new Red Bricks worker (Robbie) N - part of the O2E plan
Yes - should reach the rivered jungle in 4 turns?

Some observations:

Shouldn't Farmerville now be changing to a settler now that the worker is done?

I see coastline in the NW 2 squares north of Angus.

What's next in the RedBricks queue after the worker? Another worker?

Last edited by Sharpe on 19-02-2003 at 09:38

	19-02-2003 10:50									#19
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quote: 1) Angus NE 2) Marky Merc to fortify 3) Conan NW 4) Gaul NE 5) MercG SE, looking for a barb camp 6) new Farmerville worker to road 7) new Red Bricks worker (Robbie) N - part of the O2E plan

1)
2)
3)
4)Here's hoping for some free tech! Though... a settler would be nice, wouldn't it?
5)Kill 'em all!
6) Why don't we name our new worker the opposite of bob: bob backwards! ... wait a minute...
7)sounds goods

I think a settler in Farmerville is the best thing to go for right now. I would like to see Forkmouth founded within a short a time as possible.

	19-02-2003 11:26									#20
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1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. Agreed
5. The barbs seem to come from S, S-E; also the tiles we didn't check are the hills north of the coastal mountain; thus I propose the following moves:
- Mercg S (attacking the barb), then SE, then E. After attacking the encampment (he should see it by then) move him on the coastal hills (that would be NE, if we didn't want to attack the encampment).
6. Okie Dokie
7. I'd rather work the southern grass, but if you say so ...

Farmerville to build a settler
Red Bricks to build a worker

	19-02-2003 13:03									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 4) Gaul NE Agreed - though if we did get a tech, we would likely get Horseback Riding this time as it is the cheapest tech still available (though Iron Working would be nice of course!)

I would set the research to Horse Riding at the beginning of the turn, pop the hut then, and only after that correct the research to Iron Working. This way, we would lose no beakers, while preventing the cheapest tech to be popped from the hut.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 7) new Red Bricks worker (Robbie) N - part of the O2E plan Yes - should reach the rivered jungle in 4 turns?

Correct.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Shouldn't Farmerville now be changing to a settler now that the worker is done?

Yes, Farmerville has already started building a Settler (at least I hope I changed the production - if not, it will be fixed on this turn), I just forgot to mention it.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe What's next in the RedBricks queue after the worker? Another worker?

Yes, another worker that will start improving the Red Brick city radius.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius 5. The barbs seem to come from S, S-E; also the tiles we didn't check are the hills north of the coastal mountain; thus I propose the following moves: - Mercg S (attacking the barb), then SE, then E. After attacking the encampment (he should see it by then) move him on the coastal hills (that would be NE, if we didn't want to attack the encampment).

Sounds very well thought out (I have just woken up, thus being partially impaired... and ultimately unable to get the brilliance of this plan, so I pretend I understand it and consider it great... ). j/k - you are: a. right, b. the Military Architect, so we will do it like you say.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius 7. I'd rather work the southern grass, but if you say so ...

I thought we would build the road to Forkmouth first, to make defending these two cities easier and to save two turns on the settler transfer.

	19-02-2003 13:14									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by vondrack I thought we would build the road to Forkmouth first, to make defending these two cities easier and to save two turns on the settler transfer.

I was talking about the Red Bricks worker. That one I'd move S, not N. But apparently your DE plan took over all of ours workers and they must obey to this higher cause j/k

	20-02-2003 21:50									#23
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Plans for 1600BC:

1) Angus NE
2) Conan N
3) Gaul N
4) MercG SE
5) Robbie N

Oh, my... that's boring...

	20-02-2003 22:05									#24
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quote: Oh, my... that's boring...

Boring, yes, but keeping on track!

	21-02-2003 05:28									#25
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Plans for 1600BC:

1) Angus NE
Hmm I wonder whether we should move E onto the mountain instead which could reveal more of the south - if we then move N to the mountain after that it should then reveal what we would see if we went NE this turn

2) Conan N
Agreed

3) Gaul N
Agreed

4) MercG SE
Hmm, wouldn't E be better and then E again as I don't think that we have visited that hill yet (and I think that might be the closest to the "X" spot of RP) - furthermore that hill is closest to the shroud and we should uncover that if possible. I don't think MercG is that damaged that we need to keep him on hills unless you think that there is a barb camp nearby.

5) Robbie N
Agreed

Last edited by Sharpe on 21-02-2003 at 07:01

	22-02-2003 09:39									#26
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Suggestions for 1575bc plan (up to Lux already so our turn is very soon so want to put something out here to discuss at least)

1. Angus either N, E or SE - don't think he should attack the barb due to the mountain bonus and the presence of the 2nd barb that could kill him if he is too damaged - need to get to better defensive territory
2. Conan N closer to the worker
3. Gaul to pop the hut (see Tech suggestion at end of turn)
4. MercG E onto the hill
5. Robbie N
6. Worker W of Farmerville (Rover ?) either N or W then road the next turn
7. Jimbo start mining

re: the hut - we should initially research Horseback Riding but switch to Iron Working after we pop the hut or before the end of the turn to max the chance of getting Iron Working from the hut if we get a free tech (knowing us - we will get a map - gee thanks we already know most of the area...)

The sudden appearance of 2 barbs in the north means that at least one barb camp is in the north - still especially with Lux on its way we should still slightly emphasize exploring and getting huts over killing barbs unless we need to kill or need the cash boost.

	22-02-2003 13:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Suggestions for 1575bc plan (up to Lux already so our turn is very soon so want to put something out here to discuss at least) 1. Angus either N, E or SE - don't think he should attack the barb due to the mountain bonus and the presence of the 2nd barb that could kill him if he is too damaged - need to get to better defensive territory 2. Conan N closer to the worker 3. Gaul to pop the hut (see Tech suggestion at end of turn) 4. MercG E onto the hill 5. Robbie N 6. Worker W of Farmerville (Rover ?) either N or W then road the next turn 7. Jimbo start mining re: the hut - we should initially research Horseback Riding but switch to Iron Working after we pop the hut or before the end of the turn to max the chance of getting Iron Working from the hut if we get a free tech (knowing us - we will get a map - gee thanks we already know most of the area...) The sudden appearance of 2 barbs in the north means that at least one barb camp is in the north - still especially with Lux on its way we should still slightly emphasize exploring and getting huts over killing barbs unless we need to kill or need the cash boost.

Sharpe, thanks a lot for putting this together. I was so tired yesterday that it needed all my will to post at least the Chronicle update. I was almost falling asleep in front of my computer, so I hoped someone would take over from me for the plan.

Just talked to Trip, they will not be passing the save on for several hours now, running an important poll, so we still have time to discuss things, if we wanted.

I agree with all your proposed action (perhaps we should do it always this way to prevent any disputes? ) and I would do it this way (detailed turn guide):

1. set research to Horseback Riding

2. switch Panama production to Galley

3. Angus N (so that he gets the full picture of that northern part and needs not to get back later)
4. Conan N
5. Gaul NW, popping the hut
6. set research to Iron Working
7. MercG E
8. Robbie N
9. Rover W, then road (to have the road all the way to Forkmouth, allowing to move a settler there in one turn)
10. Jimbo to road (he's currently mining)
11. Marky Merc S, then SW, W, S, S to have a look into the western sea (let's have a look... he's idling there anyway)
12. check if Panama's production switched to Galley!!!

	22-02-2003 23:23									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, good plans, I don't have anything to add or modify.

However, changing the production of Panama to galley is very important, so maybe you should move that on the 1st place, bolded and underlined and than on the last place put:
"check if production of Panama was changed to galley" ! (really, I'm serious, this is important; missing this would ruin some well thought out plans)

	23-02-2003 03:38									#29
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Good point about the switching to galley - I had forgotten about that

	23-02-2003 03:56									#30
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Well done, Radek