12-02-2003 18:10									#1
	Interesting usenet thread... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

A few people with the game (including Jonah Falcon...) are posting their thoughts on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic. You may or may not be interested. Google link:

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=...games.strategic

And here's a snippet:

quote: >I like the game, but sometimes I feel as if there isn't much to do, the >AI seems to take care of my planets better than me, and can probably >fight battles more efficiently too. The AI has no strategic sense though. While the AI seems to run the economies fairly well, the strategic planning of the AI races appears to be worse than MOO2. Overall, I find SP to be fairly dull - it's too easy and the eye-candy soon palls. The game has been optimised for MP though and that should be more interesting. One will probably have to micro-manage furiously to get an edge though and that will be frustrating against the clock.

	12-02-2003 19:09									#2
	Remove this text

God, I hope that's not true. I have ZERO interest in Multi-player...

I geuss this game really goes to "wait for a good sale/bargain bin" after all...

	12-02-2003 19:22									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MitchDev God, I hope that's not true. I have ZERO interest in Multi-player... I geuss this game really goes to "wait for a good sale/bargain bin" after all...

Jump to conclusions often or is this your first time?

Why don't you wait until more than a handful get the game to actually play it and then look at ALL sides, not just the "flamers" or "fan-boy" side and make a logical decision.

Sheesh, making a decision on what one or two people say doesn't make much lgical sense but then again some people are sheep and believe everything they hear as gospel truth also. YMMV.

	12-02-2003 20:38									#4
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how cheap are all these 'wait for bargain bin' people?

Just get the game, and find out what you think. $50 isn't going to send you and your family into the ****ing poor house.

	12-02-2003 21:21									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Personally, I'm buying the game. I was just pointing out what people are saying... just having the game doesn't mean they are experts on whether this is a good game or not, especially without any history as to how they reviewed other games.

Now Jonah has a body of work, so to speak, review-wise, so I know how to interpret what he's saying about a game.

So like Oz and JF said, don't jump to conclusions.

	12-02-2003 22:37									#6
	Got spare money?

"$50 isn't going to send you and your family into the ****ing poor house."

Uh hate to nitpick Jack but there are no poor houes anymore. Poor people live on the streets.

	12-02-2003 22:55									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous Jump to conclusions often or is this your first time? Why don't you wait until more than a handful get the game to actually play it and then look at ALL sides, not just the "flamers" or "fan-boy" side and make a logical decision. Sheesh, making a decision on what one or two people say doesn't make much lgical sense but then again some people are sheep and believe everything they hear as gospel truth also. YMMV.

Actually, moron, it's more than just this, but this is a major factor, I'm not shelling out $50 for a game:

A) That the design team skimped on the AI and designed mainly for MP.

B) Has no DEMO for it

C) Has cut as many basic features as MoO3 has (Naming planets, selecting your flag's color just to name two)

D) Has an "official" message board that you have to register just to read and has such rude and "favorite's playing" moderators as IG does...

And since they idiots at QS/IG have release so little about the game these reports from the "priviledged few" are all we really have to go on right now.

So screw you!

I have limited funds, and arrogant companies don't deserve a cent of it...

My decision isn't final yet, but with people like you around it makes me want the game to fail just out of spite...

And yes, $50 can make a big difference , especially in this lay-off happy economy when you're living month to month, so maybe the fanboy's need to grow up and face a little reality too...

	12-02-2003 22:59									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think the stuff in that thread is mostly a bunch of crap by people who dont knowmuch about the game....

This game DOES have a steep learning curve, and some things may not make sense to people until they have played awhile....

Some of the things they dont understand the reason behind, they are just bashing....

ignore them

	12-02-2003 23:34									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MitchDev Actually, moron, it's more than just this, but this is a major factor, I'm not shelling out $50 for a game: .....etc.... And yes, $50 can make a big difference , especially in this lay-off happy economy when you're living month to month, so maybe the fanboy's need to grow up and face a little reality too...

MitchDev, obviously this game is not for you, and you dont want it. In that case, go ahead and go buy something else and dont buy it....

	13-02-2003 00:22									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, just about all new games run that price, what have you bneen smoking that you haven't noticed this?

	13-02-2003 01:11									#11
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MitchDev... If you have any desire to continue posting on this site...

STOP WITH THE PERSONAL INSULTS! Or you will be restricted. YOU GOT THAT!

	13-02-2003 01:28									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

To get the thread back on pseudo-track -

I know the guy who posted that review. I don't know where he got his hands on it - and am very curious to find out. I'll say it this way - he has very different ideas of what a good game is than I do. In terms of trustworthiness, I'd say that I'd recommend Tycho's review over that one, though clearly Davidson has had more experience with the game.

	13-02-2003 02:05									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Ming MitchDev... If you have any desire to continue posting on this site... STOP WITH THE PERSONAL INSULTS! Or you will be restricted. YOU GOT THAT!

Yawn, whatever, I see the forum mods play favorites over here too...

pathetic

	13-02-2003 02:06									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MitchDev Yawn, whatever, I see the forum mods play favorites over here too...

Yawn... I see some new posters can act like little children... pathetic...

You are one post away... Have a nice day.

	13-02-2003 02:08									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If calling a spade a spade and calling it the way I see it is "acting like little children", that's your judgement error.

It seems some of your favorites can post insults, but if anyone else does, screw 'em eh?

I love the way the web makes you guys think you're so special...

	13-02-2003 02:11									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Uhhh... you are the one that started calling people morons... So if you insult one more person, you're toast.

	13-02-2003 02:19									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

(oops, nm. Had something about the 2 different AIs but decided it was irrelevant and I can't delete this)

Last edited by Dracil on 13-02-2003 at 02:24

	13-02-2003 02:25									#18
	Tired of ads?

">I like the game, but sometimes I feel as if there isn't much to do, the
>AI seems to take care of my planets better than me, and can probably
>fight battles more efficiently too.Overall, I find SP to be fairly dull - it's too easy and the eye-candy
soon palls.
The game has been optimised for MP though and that should
be more interesting. One will probably have to micro-manage furiously
to get an edge though and that will be frustrating against the clock."

perhaps this person should try to get better at the game. Afterall, he's had it for how many days?

And doesn't his comment about MP seem to contradict what he said about the AI? The AI is better at micromanagement, but if you want to win in mp, you have to micromanage?

	13-02-2003 08:20									#19
	Suffering from ads?

"The AI runs it better than I do."

Maybe he just sucks at it.

ACK!

	13-02-2003 09:29									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

RTFM would be good advice for this guy. If he can't figure out how to manage a single planet, how does he expect to manage an empire of dozens of planets. Oh wait, I forgot, he sucks at the game so he won't even get off the barren rock he started out on

	15-02-2003 21:23									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by H Tower And doesn't his comment about MP seem to contradict what he said about the AI? The AI is better at micromanagement, but if you want to win in mp, you have to micromanage?

The game has been designed to minimise micromanagement. You can still do it in some areas but it's tedious because there's more detail and it's buried under layers of interface. The consequence is:

SP: you will set the game to a difficulty level at which you can beat the computer without micromanagement. The game will then appear to play itself to a considerable extent.

MP: everyone is playing on the same terms. You can't afford to take it easy because there will be an obsesssive out there using every available second to tweak and twiddle his position. If he's getting an edge by micromanaging then there will be pressure to do likewise. You can't rely upon your superior strategic thinking because your human opponents have that too.

	15-02-2003 21:26									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

@warden

You can't micromanage everything in multiplayer, because of the timed turns.
And if you end your turn before the time ends, the game grants you a bonus.

	16-02-2003 00:09									#23
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where did you hear that from fireblade?

	16-02-2003 00:34									#24
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Hi !

I read it in the Apolyton Preview. Quote:

APPENDIX I-A: FINANCE – LEDGER – INCOME
Excerpt from the MoO3 manual, page 79:

INTEREST EARNED ON IMPERIAL TREASURY SURPLUS
If you are playing a game with timed turns, any interest you earn by finishing your turn early is displayed here.


mfg
Fireblade

	16-02-2003 01:19									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Fireblade You can't micromanage everything in multiplayer, because of the timed turns. And if you end your turn before the time ends, the game grants you a bonus.

So the micromanagement has to be done against the clock. I gather that the bonus for pressing the turn button before time is up has been cut. This means that there's no game reason not to use every second. It's an odd cut because this will tend to make MP games play more slowly and intensively overall. I think they found that players were exploiting the feature by pressing the turn button ASAP and the payoff for this was too good. Perhaps the bonus should only start after a minute ...?

	16-02-2003 01:23									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Read the above post by Fireblade.

	16-02-2003 15:42									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by kalbear Read the above post by Fireblade.

The Apolyton review is a poor source of info - the guy didn't really play the game. And that manual is out-of-date. It was probably written for the November release, like the strategy guide. The current release delay may mean that they are rewriting it.

Anyway, my understanding is still that the bonus for finishing the turn early is out.

	16-02-2003 21:25									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Well, at least we have only one full week left of waiting for it. That's approximately, 9 hours, 35 minutes and 20 seconds!!

	16-02-2003 23:48									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by warden So the micromanagement has to be done against the clock. I gather that the bonus for pressing the turn button before time is up has been cut.

ONLY if you turn timed turns on. And, AFAIK, higher interest for beating the time limit is still in.

	17-02-2003 00:02									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MitchDev A) That the design team skimped on the AI and designed mainly for MP. B) Has no DEMO for it C) Has cut as many basic features as MoO3 has (Naming planets, selecting your flag's color just to name two) D) Has an "official" message board that you have to register just to read and has such rude and "favorite's playing" moderators as IG does...

Just in case anyone was worried about these:

A) Not true.
B) Demos are hard to make for this type of game. About the only thing you could do is let people download the whole game with a turn limiter. I'm sure everyone can see the problems with that.
C) In Moo2 you could name stars, not planets. Now you pick your flag instead of your colour, and you can design your own flags.
D) Needing to register is up to IG, not QS.