13-02-2003 18:09									#31
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I don't buy the notion that the US is a bad guy, yes, they make mistakes, yes they can be gun-ho, and yes, they can occationally appear to see the entire world as being within the borders of the US.. but they are not evil, and I wonder how other nations would act, given the same position in the world ??

What gets me is, those people that talk of thousands of civilian casualties, and how terrible the US is for killing innocent people (some very sad people even accuse them of targetting children !! now that is totally pathetic) say nothing about the abuse Saddam causes his people (accept for the occational bland, "ohh yes, he's bad also").

Where are the marches against Saddam ?? Where are the marches against Al Quida ??

You do wonder who's side these people are on ?

There are many British & Americans who oppose the war, not because they see the US as evil, but because they simply feel there are still other options. They are the people I respect (but disagree with), the individuals who talk of the US as being evil, or G.Bush .. are either gullable, misguided, or have there own agenda.

	13-02-2003 18:15									#32
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Bush is evil, but not in an "I want to target Iraqi civilians" way. He's more of a "let's help the rich make money" and "I'm a cowboy--shoot first ask questions later".

I just think a pre-emptive military action is wrong because there are better options. If Saddam does something, then I say bomb him. If other countries follow this doctrine of pre-emptive action, this world would erupt in war. Imagine if India and Pakistan followed the Bush doctrine.

	13-02-2003 18:22									#33
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quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy I don't buy the notion that the US is a bad guy, yes, they make mistakes, yes they can be gun-ho, and yes, they can occationally appear to see the entire world as being within the borders of the US.. but they are not evil, and I wonder how other nations would act, given the same position in the world ?? What gets me is, those people that talk of thousands of civilian casualties, and how terrible the US is for killing innocent people (some very sad people even accuse them of targetting children !! now that is totally pathetic) say nothing about the abuse Saddam causes his people (accept for the occational bland, "ohh yes, he's bad also"). Where are the marches against Saddam ?? Where are the marches against Al Quida ??

In the countries that they're in (as much as protesting is possible there, anyways).



You expect people in america to protest against Saddam hussein when they're own government is just as bad? Why, when faced with two evils, do you expect them to ignore their own government and go along with the war by protesting against the government's opponent?

That would be pro-war protesting, not anti-war!

	13-02-2003 18:27									#34
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Sava,

That is the one opinion on the "No to war" side of the argument, I accept is difficult to respond too. My wife is Indian, and so the thought of Pakistan attacking pre-emptivly worries her whole family, and im pretty sure people in Pakistan feel the same way. China & Taiwan is another..

My problem is, some nations out there seem to think its a good opportunity to oppose the US in the UN, just for political gain (elections approaching), even financial gain ... (a few more billions in our direction, and we won't veto !! .. not that id accuse Russia of doing that), or just to try and set themselves up as a credible alternative super-power..

I can understand the frustration the US feels, having to deal with this.. but at the end of the day, it is important that they set a good example in these matters. With that I agree .. but I wish the other "So called" major nations would act appropriatly.

	13-02-2003 19:01									#35
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National and political interests are factors on all sides of this (the US, France, Germany, Russia); but they are just factors. Sure, the US has an interest in the availability of Iraqi oil to American companies, but that's not their sole reason for war. And likewise with the French opposition.

There are too many other damn problems in the world to be starting a war in Iraq (which will cause more problems than it will solve).

	13-02-2003 21:26									#36
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quote: However, U.S. intelligence officials said later North Korea has demonstrated no new missile capabilities in the last year. The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Tenet and Jacoby's statements were based on the same information that led U.S. intelligence to conclude a few years ago that North Korea was close to being able to flight-test a three-stage Taepo Dong 2.

Hold on folks, according to the above quoted AP article, this "news" about the NK having the ability to attack the US was based on the theoretical capabilities of a missile that had never been tested, and may not even exist! This isn't "news" at all, it's simply the restatement of intelligence findings from "a few years ago."

quote: Without flight-testing, the reliability of such a missile fired in anger is questionable

Imagine you had a small number of untested nuclear warheads of perhaps less than ideal reliability, how many of them would you want to load on a test rocket?

Or even worse, a test rocket aimed at the US! Imagine if something went wrong and the missile failed after it was clear where it was headed!

	14-02-2003 00:22									#37
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Would it matter? If I was NK and US troops were streaming over the 38th, I'd load one up and send it to LA.

And then I'd tell the US I had 2 more, and ask if it really wanted to play chicken with me.

	14-02-2003 04:14									#38
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quote: We act like a normal human would do, and they act like, well, thugs.

imagine you´re in an unknown city. you ask someone for the right way. he doesn´t help you. do you shoot him or will some hits in his face or his stomach also do?

normal human behavior, eh?

	14-02-2003 08:09									#39
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quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy I don't buy the notion that the US is a bad guy, yes, they make mistakes, yes they can be gun-ho, and yes, they can occationally appear to see the entire world as being within the borders of the US.. but they are not evil, and I wonder how other nations would act, given the same position in the world ??

What situation? That Iraq has CBN weapons and defied UN Security Council Resolutions? If that is the case, the US perhaps should have invaded Israel first.

	14-02-2003 09:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by oedo imagine you´re in an unknown city. you ask someone for the right way. he doesn´t help you. do you shoot him or will some hits in his face or his stomach also do? normal human behavior, eh?

We don't do that. But we'll say 'you mean a**hole' to that person. It seems that you can come up with violent imaginations very quickly.

	14-02-2003 12:59									#41
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quote: Our message is clear: if you work together with us, we will prosper together. If you oppose us, we will screw you over. I think that's fairly standard human behavior. What do you expect us to be, angels? Now let's consider Iraq's and NK's agenda: if you do not give us what we want, we will kill you, most preferably civilians and children. We act like a normal human would do, and they act like, well, thugs.

quote: We don't do that. But we'll say 'you mean a**hole' to that person. It seems that you can come up with violent imaginations very quickly.

who´s violent imagination are you takling about? it wasn´t me who came up with the killing civilians and their children thing....

	14-02-2003 16:22									#42
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quote:
Our message is clear: if you work together with us, we will prosper together. If you oppose us, we will screw you over. I think that's fairly standard human behavior. What do you expect us to be, angels? (end quote)

Problem is, that the current US gov seems to think that "if you don't dance after out fidling, you're against us" (bad metaphore, i know)

If you're not with us, you're against us. And if you don't do what we tell you to do, you're not with us. (Better...)

A joke from Late Night with Conan O'Brien:

"Arms inspectors say that they have found 10 empty biological missiles in Iraq. This has the Pentagon worried, because they distinctly remember giving Iraq 15."