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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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This is for Jon, who should have just PM'd me. I figure, however, that other comrades could use a bit of knowledge about various commie cults.
Marx noted this trend among the emigre German revolutionary groups in England after the failure of the 1848 revolutions. Politics between the various organizations grew extremely sectarian. Without a way to prove themselves in the real world of the movements, organizations began fighting over ideas. "Political clearity" replaced success in the real world. The most vicious literary and verbal assaults were launch over minor politic differences (Marx himself wrote one entire book simply for the purpose of savaging one of his critiques, Herr Vogt.
The same is true today. Organizations with almost identical politics ruthlessly decry each other of the smallest of disagreements. Some of these groups, particularly the Sparticist League, the Revolutionary Worker's League, Progressive Labor, and worst of all, the Socialist Equality Party (formerly the Workers League, a split from the organization to which Venessa Redgrave belongs) seem to have only one purpose, attacking other socialist organizations.
The Workers League even sent its members to join other organizations, and in one of the most bizzare events, a member of the Workers League that was underground in the American SWP, denounced the later organization in a civil trial by the SWP against the FBI (for COINTELPRO--they won), claiming that since the SWP was really a CIA front, the suit was really just just a trick to fool workers. 
The International Socialist Organization is a vaguely Trotskyist sect, heavy on the passion, low on the intellect. They main thing, however, is that they don't allow internal dissent (at least they didn't used to, before the broke from the British SWP, don't know if that's still the case.) I could argue with their politics, but at the end of the day, what matters is that they don't let you think for yourself, and if you show signs of doing so, they sit you down and talk with you until you agree with them or you leave the organization (as they don't want your independent thoughts influencing others).
In order to keep you from thinking for yourself, you only read party books, not even the original Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky. They try and keep you busy all the time (less time to think), and they discourage you from having friends and relationships outside the party.
On the flip side, they deserve a lot of credit for the anti-death penalty victories in Illinois, as they were the core of the movement there. They were also a big factor in helping build the anti-war movement last time around.
Every single "Leninist" organization is the same way, which is terribly ironic, because Lenin's Bolshevik's were one of the most heterodox groups ever. In the history of the organization, they expelled only one group, and that was for misappropriating funds. Even when Kamenev and Zinoviev (two important leaders in the party) exposed the plan to overthrough the Provisional government and even the date of the revolt, they were not expelled (though if Lenin had his way they would have been--and I think he was right). He later, however, wrote in his "will" that the event should not be held against either of them.
I can't think of a communist group in the US that is not either a cult of personality (SWP - Jack Barnes, Sparticists - Robertson, Workers World - Sam Macy, Revolutionary Communist Party - Chairman Bob Avakian--who's in "exile" in France; etc.) or has serious cult-like features, such as the ISO, the Communist Party, the Spark (my former organization).
There are about three groups which are full of ex-Leninists: Solidarity (I was a member of this one also), Freedom Road Socialist Organization (former Maoists), and the Committees of Corrispondence (a split from the Communist Party). On top of that you have two real Socialist groups, the Socialist Party (I'm now a member of this one) and the Democratic Socialists of America.
Ideally, I'd like an actual Leninist organization, one with a multiplicity of views, which are argued in the forums of the organization. Maybe someday.
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Jon Miller
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with both Che and Monk going for it
how do I become a member of the Socialist Party
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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I also deslike how sectarrian socialist groups are
the ISO group votes now, and asks for questions or comments
but the fact that they seemed proud of that was a little weird
Jon Miller
(who went to an ISO meeting yesterday evening)
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Jon Miller
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one of the things was that despite the asking for questions and comments
every motion was passed 100%
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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(what seemed slightly strange now makes sense if they had recently been a lot less democratic)
Jon Miller
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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The main thing I like about the Socialist Party is that I can disagree with it. Now, an older, "more serious" comrade might ask, "why should I want to be in an organization that I disagree with? Why not join an organization I agree with instead?" Because I don't agree with anyone about everything. I disagree with the Sparts over their attrocious attitude (and that's about it, I think their politics is very sharp). I disagree with the Communists over Stalin, the RCP over Mao, Workers World seems to think the DPRK has something worthwhile to it, etc. In actuality, in a few of these groups, you can dissent internally, i.e., you can only discuss your differences with party ideology within the party.
Some roups, like the Spark, won't even "punish" you for holding a different view (by punish I mean mainly ostracize, which is more severe than you can imagine). You are free to argue your point of view within the group and try and win over others to that point of view, but you don't discuss it with people you're trying to recruit (so how do you ever win anyone over?) Workers World, for example, is a bizarre blend of a Trotskyist group and a Maoist group, but to the world they're Trotskists.
On the flip side, political cults can have some serious real consequences. The group that Venessa Redgrave was/is a member of was led by a guy named Gerry Healy. Healy sexually used several of the women of his group, broke a chair over the back of his secretary, and in the biggest betrayal of all, took money from either Saddam Hussein or Muamar Qaddify (I don't remember which one) and exposed to that leader a number of communists within that leader's country.
At least 50 comrades were killed this way. The SWP, since Jack Barnes took over, has been turned into a way for Barnes to have an easy living. Members slave away selling the paper and subscriptions to the paper. Their books are ridiculously overpriced (and unfortunately, they hold the copyrights to many important revolutionaries, like Trotsky and Malcom X). One comrade inherited a rather large sum of money when his parents died. At the burial, his comrades were trying to get him to sign over his inheritence to the party! 
And then there's Jim Jones. . . . not exactly a communist, but Jim Jones' church was a serious force on the left in California. You couldn't do anything really without involving them. Then Jones wigged out and packed up and moved to Guyana with the whole church. And then they both committed suicide and were murdered.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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The ISO hates me, personally. I made it my mission to "rescue" as many people as I could from them when they decided to start organizing at my school. Mostly it was a territorial thing, DePaul was my campus. I was very good at it too, because I never approached people trying to make them leave, I simply talked politics with them, and opened their eyes to other interpretations of the same politics. I also said that they shouldn't take my word for it, they should go to the original texts and try and figure it out themselves.
The ISO tends to burn people out very quickly. They probably recruit more people than the rest of the left combined. They also lose about the same amount of people. Work, work, work. One of my buddies was told by his "leader" that his job at school was to recruit other people. He replied (and broke with them of this), that his job at school was to get an education, that his parents had sacrificed far too much for him to go to school to waste it.
That's how they see it, though. Everything and everyone is simply a tool to build the organization. Anything which harms that goal is a problem. Considering the organization hasn't managed to grow in the thirty years of its existence, I'd think they'd get a clue.
We used to make fun of them by calling them the International Student Organization, because they were the only communist group which was almost entirely college students (or professors). I can say a lot of things about the SWP, but their people are all meat packers and steel workers, etc. Course, that's cuz they were ordered by the party to get work in that field. They used to tell me that the working class in America was too reactionary for their politics. Given that every single other communist party was largely made of workers, I always had to argue with them on this point. After the first Gulf War they made a turn towards the working class, so maybe the group has matured some.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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Anyway, you can learn a lot be being politically active with such groups. Before I wore out my welcome with the ISO, we used to do a lot of potlical work together, going to demonstrations, etc. Maybe you'll get lucky, and one of the cuter comrades will try and recruit you sexually. 
But like I always said, you should talk with them. You should also talk with everyone else you can, like the Sparts, the SWP, the Communists, etc. Get everyone's perspective, then make a decision.
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SnowFire
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New York City, NY
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
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Well, Oberlin has had 2 major commie precenses I've seen, the ISO and a group called "Socialist Alternative." In my experience, the Socialist Alternative has postered far more annoyingly and with more knee-jerk "they're evil racist/imperialists!" without much cause. Of course, Socialist Alternative is also far smaller, with occasionally only single-digit memberships from what I understand, but they're very dedicated posterers and occasionaly hold events that draw more than just the membership. The ISO has always just been kind of bland "let's discuss the latest capitalist/rightist attempts to do blah blah blah," at least to the public.
Of course, none of these are quite like the bastards in the Ohio PIRG, whom I might actually agree with more a lot of the time, but still has the totally idiotic "you automatically contribute to them unless you tell the college you don't want to." I don't care if they have to get a petition signed every other year authorizing it, the people who are supposed to let you at the forms to get yourself out are the Ohio PIRG itself- which sure never made it easy to get at. By the time I realized I had been paying and it hadn't been a "check here to approve payment" thing on the bottom, it was too late.
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HolyWarrior
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You clowns still take Marx seriously?
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:25
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Very interesting post Che. In France, we also have a multitude of leftists parties, but things are a bit less messy, since 3 bigger parties share most of the far left.
Lutte Ouvrière (Worker's Struggle) is the most radical of the 3. Favors revolution, even if violent. Very oriented towards the working class. Only party which didn't call at all to vote for Chirac against Le Pen.
Ligue Communiste Révolutionnaire (Revolutionnary Communistic League), which is more oriented towards the youth, and former members of the Comunist Party. Pro revolution, but the platform isn't very coherent, and is mostly a patchwork intended to attract people with leftists leanings, but without much theoretical strength.
Parti Communiste (Communist Party, duh ! to which I belong) It was founded in 1920, and was the biggest French party between 1945 and 1958 IIRC, because of its excellent reputation of resistance during the war. It is now dying (only 4.9% votes in the latest congress elections), as it cannot find its place between the Social Democrats and the leftists. For about a decade, the Communist Party aimed to make the Social Democrats lean more towards the left, and hence had a strong Social Democrat agenda, rather than a revolutionary one.
There are a bunch of unsignificant far-left groups, which also spend their time spitting on the others. Bigger parties do this to a lesser extent, but do this nonetheless. There remains a hate between Lutte Ouvrière and the Communist Party because of how Stalin replaced Trotsky ; even though the Communist Party rejected Stalin entirely, this hate continues.
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13-02-2003 11:54
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