13-02-2003 18:10									#1
	Should we disband Pressburg? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Pressburg is a size one city, with no buildings in it and its queue will start from scratch (hop in 8 turns)!

But there are some problem i dont like about it! It is too close from H Town and the conquest distress is too high! It will probably give problems for H Town growth in the futures. Not to mention that it will give us problem to control the Conquest distress (it requres all of our units now ) that will last some turns yet. This will gives us more freedom to release our units to defense/attack)
we could move it to at least one square to the north-west or to a place closer to Pedrunnia (capital)?
The only problem is the loss of three farms at east but will be helpfull when it or H Town grows.

I also have my dout if we should or not specially because of the farmers. But the farmers are the only reason not to do so! We sure could find a better place, will assure the growth of the second radius of H Town, have our units free to control the war distress and defend H Town, etc...

So what do you guys say?

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Last edited by Pedrunn on 13-02-2003 at 18:29

	13-02-2003 18:25									#2
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I'd say keep it. The loss to H Town is minimal. The extra production capacity is very worthwhile, and its also one of the best settling spots we have available right now.

	13-02-2003 18:34									#3
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keep it - it'll grow quickly

btw, what's the point of this poll? since it's unofficial it's not allowed to have any effect on the game...

	13-02-2003 18:38									#4
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No of course not!! Did you see all those farms? Combined with the hills it has the potential of becoming one of our most important cities. A pity it's so close to H Town though, they will indeed get in each other's way in the future...

	13-02-2003 19:53									#5
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quote: Originally posted by mapfi keep it - it'll grow quickly btw, what's the point of this poll? since it's unofficial it's not allowed to have any effect on the game...

Information gathering, maybe, before thinking about polling......

I don't like the position either, but if thinking of disbanding a city I would go more for H Town, as this is the one, not placed well.

And in the moment we need all cities possible..........

	13-02-2003 20:11									#6
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Public hearing, information gathering and actually know if it is a good idea to start a resolution poll

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch I don't like the position either, but if thinking of disbanding a city I would go more for H Town, as this is the one, not placed well.

And loose the river and the good not to metnion the farms and the fact that it is a size 5 city. Are you insane!!!!!

Pressburg is a city that does not give nothing more than a newly created city. Nothing at all if we exclude the farms. Thats why i want to move it to a better place. Sice we wont loose nothing so it really is moving not disbanding! Specially if we find a good in the unexplored area north to it!

	13-02-2003 20:14									#7
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well, it seems to be better placed than h-town, but we wouldn't loose anything if disbanding it. h-town in contrast could only be disbanded without poplosses, if it is destined to breed at least 5 settler before getting disbanded, probably many more. and though i would like a few settlers for the south, that would be much too much

	13-02-2003 20:25									#8
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The farms are used by P-town, the only advantage of H-town in the moment is the river, correct. But as it is unlikly we gonna move any of it (H-town to big, P-Town to well placed), I think for the moment we have to live with it.........

	13-02-2003 20:40									#9
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well, it isn't a decision for a moment, either we move one of the cities soon, or never, since later there will be much more populace and some valuable buildings

	13-02-2003 21:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch I think for the moment we have to live with it.........

I agree with Zaphod. It is now or never!

	13-02-2003 21:34									#11
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Yes and no, we could always use one of the towns as a settler-factory........

The problem is:

The better city is P-Town (more growth, with mines far more production).

H-Town is in the moment the BIGGER city, has more commerce, otherwise average.

If one of them would have been absolute 'whatever', it would have been easier to decide.........

	14-02-2003 04:23									#12
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Keep it. We can bump food rations up one notch which will give us better happiness. Both H town(trade good+river) and Pressburg(farms+mountains) will be/are worth keeping and defending - we will have enough units in both soon enough.

	14-02-2003 04:59									#13
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won't pressburg's territory eventually fall within H Town's radius anyways? shouldn't we disband it?

	14-02-2003 06:03									#14
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower won't pressburg's territory eventually fall within H Town's radius anyways? shouldn't we disband it?

well, the line of hills, which will make for good production won't, but of course those hills could be used by another town yet to be founded a bit more to the north.

	14-02-2003 08:08									#15
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if u have to have a city around there, at least disband Pressburg and rebuild elsewhere, please

	14-02-2003 14:55									#16
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Once again, we should NOT disband the city. It's in a far better position than H Town, so if any city is to be disbanded it should be H Town. However, that is only possible after building a bunch of Settlers there.

But let's not forget the situation here: we are at WAR! The Austrians are about to retaliate, for all we know they could have 12-stacks ready to attack just inside the fog of war and we're talking about disbanding cities, building Settlers and even building Wonders! We should be pumping out units instead, pumping like our lifes depend on it - because, quite frankly, they do! We need every city we can get for that, disbanding anything is not an option at this point.

Pressburg has a growth rate of 1725 and will grow in 3 turns (after which the growth rate should still be 1000+ at least). Currently it has a production of 39 and that will rise to 50+ after the city growth, which would be 1/2 of H Town's production (with probably a higher growth rate) - not bad for a size 2 city.

	14-02-2003 16:30									#17
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I totally agree with Locutus, disbanding the city would be pure folly

	14-02-2003 17:00									#18
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Same as me,

I would like to see H Town to be disbanded, but it is too big for it.

So, I think we have to live with it.

	14-02-2003 19:00									#19
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ROI for disbanding Pressburg to avoid being in the way of H-Towns expansion:

Disband Pressburg
Pressburg loss: Lose 30/50/70 production a turn and 9/12/16 science a turn. (until it settled: assuming the spot would be as valuable) We also loose 6000 growth.
H-Town gain: The squares in question are grassland. Extra Growth gained would be 6 per pop increase. Extra production and science gained would be 1.2 per pop increase. H-Town grows slower proportionally than Pressburg

Keeping Pressburg is the inverse.

(Gain 30/50/70 Prod & 9/12/16 Science). Fighting over some growth potential is moot... its a wash, and the smaller town benefits from the growth more anyway.

MrBaggins

	14-02-2003 19:09									#20
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Might be a stupid one, but what is ROI ??????

	14-02-2003 19:31									#21
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Return On Investment

	14-02-2003 19:39									#22
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Eventually (like 80-120 turns down the road) I can see turning Pressburg into a settler factory, so that H-Town can become a major commerce town, and a SSC.

Settlers could be used to settle or disband in cities.

MrBaggins

	14-02-2003 19:43									#23
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I tried once or twice with disbanding settlers, but it doesn't increase the size of the city, is it different with this mod?

	14-02-2003 20:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch I tried once or twice with disbanding settlers, but it doesn't increase the size of the city, is it different with this mod?

In SAP2+Goodmod, it not only adds to production, but population as well. Its the highest payoff for shield production that we can get.

MrBaggins

	14-02-2003 20:50									#25
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That sounds worthwhile doing it!!!!!!!!!!

	15-02-2003 00:16									#26
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I agree with Locutus that we should 'be pumping like our lives depend on it'.......its good for morale
And we are at war, surrounded by more powerful nations than ourselves. We can do 'landscape gardening' later, but for now we should have as many cities as possible producing military units - we will need them in the coming turns

	15-02-2003 06:50									#27
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come on! i dont see why we cant just move pressburg

	16-02-2003 05:14									#28
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duh - because it's stupid, that's why.

Seriously - both cities are in very good spots, they only happen to be a little clos to each other. It'll be a while however, before they get in their way and even then - so they won't grow to size 30, who cares? They're very valuable now and that's when we need them most. Later on they'll just be some two cities of our glorious huge empire.

Last edited by mapfi on 16-02-2003 at 05:26

	16-02-2003 05:26									#29
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor I agree with Locutus that we should 'be pumping like our lives depend on it'.......its good for morale

Can i second that?

I think we should disband it eventually so every city we have has enough space to be a good contributor, but right now its needed more where it is.

	16-02-2003 07:33									#30
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This city should not be Disbanded, it is too precious for us now, IMHO we need it now as it is.