14-02-2003 03:10									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Oh you will, they control your foreign policy. No, they need to understand what kind of country they were allied with. Disagreeing with America becomes "stab in the back". Now they know What Ally except UK and Israel HASN'T been insulted and threatened by the USA. In less than a year the USA has gone from Leader of the west to international pariah. The Mask is torn.

Ozz, you simply have no idea how much resentment and anger there is in the US over the backstabbing French and Germans.

	14-02-2003 03:11									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Eli quote: panag, if you think we're ever giving your sh*thole of a country NATO membership, then you're fantasising I'm sorry, how many nuclear weapons Canada has?

How many could we build if we put our mind to it?

Answer: more than you

And it would take under a year to build a lifting body to hit Jerusalem.

Go ask the IAEA. IIRC, we're the most nuclear-capable non-nuclear country.

	14-02-2003 03:11									#93
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Who needs it?

	14-02-2003 03:12									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I agree, Panag. Belgium would not be so arrogant if it did not have NATO behind them.

hi ,

ahem , reading the news this week , ....?

they are against nato since the turkey thing , since monday morning 07.15 , ......

have a nice day

	14-02-2003 03:17									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger How many could we build if we put our mind to it? Answer: more than you And it would take under a year to build a lifting body to hit Jerusalem. Go ask the IAEA. IIRC, we're the most nuclear-capable non-nuclear country.

hi ,

you are wrong , Japan can build one in 16 weeks , brazil in 8 months , ......

the south africans just have to transport the piece and put them together , there its a matter of how fast you can drive , .... canada is now behind the two year period , and they would need to get a hold of plutonium and other parts first , ......

have a nice day

	14-02-2003 03:17									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Who needs it?

I agree, Azazel. No one really needs to be allied with Canada or Belgium or for that matter, France or Germany.

There is one and only one ally any Western nation needs. To not have that one country as your friend, but instead to have that country as your enemy, is not a good idea.

There are open calls on Capitol Hill for fixing NATO so that the French are not included.

I would now add Belgium to that list.

	14-02-2003 03:21									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I agree, Azazel. No one really needs to be allied with Canada or Belgium or for that matter, France or Germany. There is one and only one ally any Western needs. To not have that one country as your friend, but instead to have that country as your enemy, is not a good idea. There are open calls on Capitol Hill for fixing NATO so that the French are not included. I would now add Belgium to that list.

hi ,

dont forget the backstabbing germans , .....

with nato gone from belgium they get an other economical feature , ..... 100 000 people gone , ......

so lets see , no more trade with Israel , Turkey , Nato and Shape out , ..... yeah , the belgians did it again , three times huray for belgian economics , .....

have a nice day

	14-02-2003 03:35									#98
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , you are wrong , Japan can build one in 16 weeks , brazil in 8 months , ...... the south africans just have to transport the piece and put them together , there its a matter of how fast you can drive , .... canada is now behind the two year period , and they would need to get a hold of plutonium and other parts first , ...... have a nice day

Hi. You're wrong. We have plutonium-burning plants in operation right now (disposing of other people's old warheads). Which means that it wouldn't take more than 8-12 weeks. And a little birdie told me that we might have a few "pieces" that we forgot to tell the IAEA about too.

	14-02-2003 03:36									#99
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Panag: And Belgium could build one in 2 months, okay? who gives a flying **** about how fast we could build a nuke, I would even be bolder, we have US nukes stationed in Belgium, so don't push it.

quote: Ozz, you simply have no idea how much resentment and anger there is in the US over the backstabbing French and Germans.

Ned, you simply have no idea how much resentment and anger there is in Europe over the arrogant way of handling things the Americans do it.

I mean, we all know since october 2002 that Bush is planning an attack on Iraq, even without NATO support, apparently that doesn't matter anyway, so you think at least. I just can't get how you blatantly ignore all international rules and do whatever you want... I see there is a tendency amongst the Americans to feel superior to everybody else in the world... As you are saying yourself, you don't need Canada (who have done nothing wrong) or France or anybody else, you'll just handle your business yourselves...now that, my fiend, is arrogance.

quote: I agree, Panag. Belgium would not be so arrogant if it did not have NATO behind them.

You just don't get it do you? It's not Belgium that prosecutes, it's victims that do... All these actions by the Israeli like closing the doors for Belgian tourists (as if i would want to go to Israel right now, **** off) are pretty lame, and that is racism, we belgians have done nothing to you... we don't close hotels for israelis, right?


and panag, you with all your bullshit, the reasonably large Jewish community in Antwerp (and other places) is BELGIAN and not israeli, they just have the same religion... these jews have a Belgian passport and everything!
and panag, who was oppressing the palestinians again? was it ... the Belgians?? Oh, honestly I don't think so matey, perhaps you should put your glasses on and see what the **** is going on in your own mess you guys like to call a democratic country or whatever you "think" a democratic country is...

	14-02-2003 03:59									#100
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NATO didn't follow any international rules when it intervened in Kosovo, the UN was bypassed because of the Russian veto. That was the start of the dowbfall of the post-war political settlement, and it had as much to do with European pressure for action, as US

WTF are the Belgian, French and German governements doing blocking NATo aid to Turkey - does the Belgian governement now believe that treaty obligations can be ignored, they were happy enough with them in 1914 and 1940

	14-02-2003 04:00									#101
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quote: And a little birdie told me that we might have a few "pieces" that we forgot to tell the IAEA about too.

Sounds like sabre-rattling, Frogger. From a Liberal?

Everybody knows Canada is just eskimos and igloos, hewers of wood and drawers of water. Why change perceptions?

	14-02-2003 04:00									#102
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A Liberal?

I vote NDP.

	14-02-2003 04:04									#103
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I just like taking the piss out of Israelis, Americans and Greeks.

There's a simple formula:

For the Israelis, call them a 3rd-world pisspot
For the Greeks, ask them how their Turkish husbands are doing
For the Americans, remind them of the War of 1812

	14-02-2003 04:11									#104
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH This is the summary from the Kahan commission that investigated the events

Also relevent is Sharon's suit (in a US court) of libel against Time on account of an article they wrote claiming his involvement in the incident, because he cared so much about his reputation. The trial exonerated him, although the Jury did not award damages because he couldn't prove that they had wrote the article with malice intent.

Also relevent is the fact that we don't hear any calls for the trial of the Christian Phalangests who had commited the incidents (or those who had perpetrated simmilar incidents against Christian Phalangest communities, killing women and children).

	14-02-2003 04:12									#105
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quote: WTF are the Belgian, French and German governements doing blocking NATo aid to Turkey - does the Belgian governement now believe that treaty obligations can be ignored, they were happy enough with them in 1914 and 1940

What the Turks are not happy with the 50000 American troops already in Turkey, right that's not enough protection then...

btw you really think Turkey is about to receive a massive attack? a bit far fetched if you ask me..

Besides, don't forget, pretty much all of the Turks don't want a war in Iraq, it's once again simply our good old friend America that more or less obliges them to support the war...
Also, America wants the support of Turkey in a war against Iraq, but at the same time, America supports the Kurds in Iraq, something the Turks don't really like, as they are having enough problems with the Kurds in their own country as it is now... A Kurdish revolt wouldn't be so amusing for the Turks!!

	14-02-2003 04:13									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger I just like taking the piss out of Israelis, Americans and Greeks.

Are those your 2 cents? Oh, sorry, your 3 Canadian Dollars.

	14-02-2003 04:13									#107
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Trajanus, The US has a right to a pursue foreign policy independently of Europe. This is not arrogance.

We have asked the UN and NATO for help. France has become active in denying the US the help of the UN and NATO. France is supposed to be our friend and ally. If France does not agree with US foreign policy, it can simply stand aside rather than join us to the extent it has no legal obligations of support. But what France has done is actively oppose US policy.

This is a distinction with a difference. During Vietnam, many in the US opposed the war for one reason or another. Few, if any, though, went to fight for North Vietnam. (Jane Fonda did.) To the extent they would have, they would have become traitors and enemies of the United States.

France has been our friend an ally for more than 200 years. We were born with French help. We returned the favor twice in the last century. (We even provided support for the French effort in Indochina.) Friends and allies do not actively support the enemy against the the other. But, that is what the French are now doing. They are supporting Saddam.

When Belgium provides jurisdiction over government officials of another state without the consent of that other state, I cannot see how they cannot be committing acts of war. They can only get away with it because they believe they have NATO's support if the concerned nation attacks to rescue its government officials or soldiers.

When Spain tried to arrest Pinochet while he was visiting London, a possible reaction to the arrest would have been a declaration war on Spain by Chile. I for one would have said that Spain was asking for it and would have wanted to keep America out of such a war.

	14-02-2003 04:13									#108
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quote: Hi. You're wrong. We have plutonium-burning plants in operation right now (disposing of other people's old warheads). Which means that it wouldn't take more than 8-12 weeks. And a little birdie told me that we might have a few "pieces" that we forgot to tell the IAEA about too.

I don't know why, by the notion of any canadian making military threats makes me laugh. It's a good thing, though. You're lucky to live in a peaceful region.

	14-02-2003 04:16									#109
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For the Americans, remind them of the War of 1812

We fired our guns
and the British kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many
as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and
they began to runnin' on
down the Mississippi
to the Gulf of Mexico.

	14-02-2003 04:19									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I don't know why, by the notion of any canadian making military threats makes me laugh. It's a good thing, though. You're lucky to live in a peaceful region.

I was reading that the Canadian goverment intends to actively support us in Iraq with a special unit that is highly skilled in urban combat.

Bravo Canadians!

	14-02-2003 04:20									#111
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You should see the diefenbunker.

http://www.diefenbunker.ca/

We weren't under Soviet ground threat, but the battle for North America was going to be fought in our airspace.

It was at this point, after some small falling-out with the US that I'm informed the Canadian government hired some physicists for an unspecified project. And I'm not aware of the results being disposed of.

So watch your step or we'll float one down to the Med in a sub.

	14-02-2003 04:21									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I was reading that the Canadian goverment intends to actively support us in Iraq with a special unit that is highly skilled in urban combat. Bravo Canadians!

Really now? Where'd you hear this?

	14-02-2003 04:22									#113
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quote: Trajanus, The US has a right to a pursue foreign policy independently of Europe. This is not arrogance.

Well, if that's your opinion, then so be it, but don't expect everybody else to follow it, France may oppose it, but it doesn't really actively oppose it, I mean, it's not like France is going to prevent a war on Iraq, they just strongly disagree with you, and perhaps they try to be a bit more critical than you, and attempt to prevent the war in one way or another, but still, they're not doing anything major to stop Bush, what they are doing is just showing Bush he can't just do what he wants, that there are ppl with other opinions... And I'm glad this is happening, imagine a world in which Bush would have no opposition, and in which he could do whatever his folly mind wished... Oh boy, it sure wouldn't look pretty

Btw I'm not talking of France as an angel, Vietnam (both France and the US) was completely nuts there, but you know times change, and politics change as well, yesterdays friend could be tomorrows enemy and vice versa, just like the US first supported osama and then...

At least I'm not so naive to think alliances are binding for eternity,... alliances are just there in a certain situation that benefits both parties, but they never last for eternity dude

And besides, it's not because we are allies, that we actually have to support an attack on another country, even if the leader of that country is a complete **** and an *******.

	14-02-2003 04:23									#114
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quote: Originally posted by DanS For the Americans, remind them of the War of 1812 We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin. There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago. We fired once more and they began to runnin' on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

Ah, now: you see what happens to native British troops without being bolstered by our Indians and militias?

New Orleans was a sideshow anyhoo.

The War was fought and lost by the US at Stoney Creek.

	14-02-2003 04:29									#115
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Is it frightening that I've sung that song in front of 100 000 people?

	14-02-2003 04:34									#116
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Hmmmm what exactly do you mean

	14-02-2003 04:37									#117
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Exactly what I said.

In 1814 we took a little trip...



Of course, it was immediately followed by Barrett's Privateers.

	14-02-2003 04:38									#118
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This site is so soureal, frogger.

"Canada, and the cold war".
The amounts of imagery my mind conjures are staggering.

	14-02-2003 04:39									#119
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It's named after our PM Diefenbaker.

	14-02-2003 04:41									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Well, if that's your opinion, then so be it, but don't expect everybody else to follow it, France may oppose it, but it doesn't really actively oppose it, I mean, it's not like France is going to prevent a war on Iraq, they just strongly disagree with you, and perhaps they try to be a bit more critical than you, and attempt to prevent the war in one way or another, but still, they're not doing anything major to stop Bush, what they are doing is just showing Bush he can't just do what he wants, that there are ppl with other opinions... And I'm glad this is happening, imagine a world in which Bush would have no opposition, and in which he could do whatever his folly mind wished... Oh boy, it sure wouldn't look pretty Btw I'm not talking of France as an angel, Vietnam (both France and the US) was completely nuts there, but you know times change, and politics change as well, yesterdays friend could be tomorrows enemy and vice versa, just like the US first supported osama and then... At least I'm not so naive to think alliances are binding for eternity,... alliances are just there in a certain situation that benefits both parties, but they never last for eternity dude And besides, it's not because we are allies, that we actually have to support an attack on another country, even if the leader of that country is a complete **** and an *******.

As to offensive actions, allies do not have to provide support if they do not agree. This is very true. No one is debating this.

For weeks now, if not months, we had been hoping for French military support against Iraq. But, with within the last week, this attitude has changed. Many here would reject any French offer of support. The reason is that France has gone beyond having a different view on how to deal with Iraq. It has begun to actively oppose any solution that makes sense - especially with its plans to provide French occupation troops and French airpatrols under UN command. This sounds like France simply wants Saddam to surrender to France rather than to the United States. With France, he gets to keep his job.

As Blix said also, without disarming Saddam's army, what are the French forces supposed to do if Saddam's army blocks inspections? The French plan is not well thought out. It is very clear that the French forces would be there to provide the image of occupation without the reality of occupation.

Getting back to the basic issue: Why do you believe that the US should subject its foregn policy to European approval?