17-05-2003 00:46									#211
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hahahah, yep senior moment, I meant you can finish those that you are working on when you get GUNPOWDER then you must switch. believe it or not, that's what I thought I said. But upon further review.

	17-05-2003 00:56									#212
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Yep... sometimes "upon further review" can be REALLY FUNNY

But now that you have laid it out better... I can go along with that. You can still change every city you have to a warrior the turn before you get gunpowder to at least take advantage of the rules you are suggesting... so you will get one free round of cheap muskets

	17-05-2003 01:05									#213
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That seems fair to me...no more iron ciites pumping out muskets each turn but if your smart you do like rah said and get the freebies

	17-05-2003 01:08									#214
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Yes, but not as cheap as people always seem to claim. By the time you're to Gunpowder, (well at least in 2x games) most of your cities are producing condiderably more than 10 shields, so let's say your city is producing 17, every turn you build a warrior, that will upgrade to a musket that you can disband for 15, instead of a net profit of 5 shield, you lost 2. Now granted you can shift the city down to 10 and collect extra trade or food, that's not always possible. The only way you can profit is by not disbanding them and just keep throwing them against your foes. But if their defenses are good, you're not really gaining anything.

RAH
But I have seen it used quite effectively.

	17-05-2003 01:12									#215
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its a great way to get a good start on infastructure, disband those muskets one at a time for each building yoru rushing......especially in republic when science cities can have support issues...

your right about the shield production, but if i am using the city for caravans, i won't switch to muskets.... and that city will have the token defenders already.....

	19-05-2003 17:31									#216
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Yeah if you have some stocked up, it can really help rushing things. But that is different.

RAH

	19-05-2003 22:34									#217
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If you have gunpowder early enough, and are in republic the timing of the disbanding is very important.

for one, you aren't going to need those muskets long, in short time alpines are avail and if you have the right land, disband all but one musket for some buildings is a great way to go.....especially if you ahve the vans lying around ......

i love to drop my defenders per city to 1 when i go to republic, especially if i have gunpowder, yet again, another chance i am willing to take....

of course, if that barb sail with five vet crusaders comes out and hits your city on grass, well that is a stupid move on your part...

its not cut and dry, its just yet another tactic that can work at the right time

	19-05-2003 22:37									#218
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Yeah, I will reduce defenders in my inner cities, (except for capital, since I'm not willing to take chances on it, especially if there's a one square ocean near it) when I move to republic. The border cities still keep their contingent.

	19-05-2003 22:49									#219
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or if your out er cities have production, which many do, you just send the units by road to completely reinforce the front, while using parchment in the core and building infastructure and caravans...

that is why the ring is an excellent defensive measure

	19-05-2003 23:00									#220
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Yes, but on our strange shaped maps, Ocean 1 usually encroaches on your core at some point.

	20-05-2003 02:57									#221
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i guess it depends on how ocean your ocean cities are....i like to use the ocean cities to max trade and the forest around them for the production citie(s)

i have no qualms dumping alot of cities just enough spaces apart that cities cannont be placed anywhere nice .....i am willing to give the flatland grass city with no production and only 3-4 ocean squares to an encroacher, b/c i can easily go and take it before you turn it to forest, but you do bring up a good point

	20-05-2003 03:19									#222
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yeah, if it's on the east or west coast, it's reasonably safe until someone builds lighthouse. but you do have to be careful about the possible landing points around it.

And have cities up and down around it so at least ships will be seen before they're one turn away.

	20-05-2003 03:26									#223
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

well that is when you hope for continent 2-5 to be around....so you have the early warning system in place..and the trade whore...

actually best trade whore is an inland lake that is 15 tiles with a one tile island in the centre....then you can control who drops off the vans

	20-05-2003 03:38									#224
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Yeah, that's nice but it doesn't happen often. I too like that island right off your capital for good trade and warning.

	20-05-2003 03:51									#225
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doesnt' have to be off your cap, it can be off the coast of your outer cities..so long as you can get your vans there at a reasonable speed.....what dif does it make....

	20-05-2003 04:10									#226
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Yeah... that one square island on and inland lake that you control is great for trade routes... especially if it's within three squares of a city hooked to your road system.

	20-05-2003 04:16									#227
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Yeah... that one square island on and inland lake that you control is great for trade routes... especially if it's within three squares of a city hooked to your road system.

	20-05-2003 17:08									#228
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever doesnt' have to be off your cap, it can be off the coast of your outer cities..so long as you can get your vans there at a reasonable speed.....what dif does it make....

It doesn't have to be, but if you cap is exposed on ocean 1, having the island near helps you sentry for incoming ships. Not critical, but nice.

	21-05-2003 00:59									#229
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for any cities exposed i think the offshore trading partner is a great warning system.....

but yes if your cap is exposed, then i guess its even better happy now

	21-05-2003 01:43									#230
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever for any cities exposed i think the offshore trading partner is a great warning system..... but yes if your cap is exposed, then i guess its even better happy now

Always

	21-05-2003 03:26									#231
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When your capital is exposed... EVERY little bit helps.
Especially with aggressive people like you guys in the game

	21-05-2003 05:25									#232
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well you dont' always "get" a choice where to put the capital...sometimes you have to risk it ...besides, thats part of the fun, caputuring the crown

	21-05-2003 17:13									#233
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever caputuring

What, a new Starbucks product?

Yes, sometimes you have no choice. But you don't start to sweat until someone finds it. The first time one of Markus's ship's cruise by, you start beefing up, because you know it will be back with others stuffed with knights or crusaders.

RAH

	21-05-2003 18:26									#234
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nah, hes more likely looking for a trading partner, so i assume its stuffed with "beemers" and other fine German IMPORTS

	21-05-2003 18:30									#235
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Yes, if he has the trade cities. If he has production cities instead and generally crappy land, his focus is different. He's taken my cap that way once before. And it was on an inland sea.

RAH

	21-05-2003 18:35									#236
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Well some people need to learn to play without trade in their capital It can be an exciting game b/c your focus is on early war techs and finding your opponent.....

besides if you have no trade, likely he won't have alot either..... meaning you won't be too far behind

	21-05-2003 18:56									#237
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On a larger map, I'd dissagree, but on the smaller maps, some of the seed numbers sometimes produce tradeless maps and more food/production types. But all it takes is a couple of trade specials to start, and you can get a great head start.

	21-05-2003 19:19									#238
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i was talking about the moon surfaces we play on

	21-05-2003 19:35									#239
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Yeah, on our rocks, sometimes there's only one gold, if any, on the whole world.

	21-05-2003 21:11									#240
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yeah and when somone gets it in the first few turns , the rest of the players are playing catchup....... high trade maps are fun b/c of the cruising tech tree..

nothing worse than the fishy/coal plains games