13-02-2003 21:03									#1
	Diplomatic talks with Ghenghis Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've chatted with Ghenghis about the war between ND and Lux.

I've tried to convince Ghenghis of the fact that a big ND is a threat to both GoW and RP.

I suggested that ND's next move, after the defeat of Lux, would be to declare war to one of us.

I suggested that GoW is an easy target: small military and few cities and it is in ND's best interests to posess the entire north.

Genghis was not convinced. He replied that their army may be strong, but no weak, compared to ND's. He told me that they have horsemen.

He also told me that GoW can be seen as a vassal of ND. How they became a vassal he didn't tell.

Furthermore he considered us more a threat to ND that GoW as we can be seen as rivals and they not.

He is clearly pointing on a secret alliance between GoW and ND.

When I finished the chat with the commens on his military as i have stated above he had to go to some errands. I hope he may have realized what threat ND really is to them so that they won't back ND with conquering Lux, but I doubt he will do so.

I think, Togas, it would be strategical to have an alliance with ND as soon as Lux is defeated. If not, GoW shall be hired by ND to be their dagger to backstab us. This war is the first step of ND to total hegemony

Aidun Cian the Older

	13-02-2003 22:06									#2
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You mean we shall just sit here and watch, while we build up?
Ok, thats good enough for now... but we will lose if we don't reduce the ND-power somehow. A grand alliace against ND would be more beneficial for us. (and even for GoW, as they might gain some land too)

Ok, I realize we cannot take them out alone,
and as long as GoW say they are vassals, it's a difficult situation...


BTW:
Why is that road-project between Madrid and Pamplona not even started? I can recall some voices stating in the beginning,
that this was a critical link and should have priority.

	13-02-2003 22:23									#3
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Agreed on linking Madrid to Pamplona and Saragossa (so we can get horsemen...).

Currently, the workers are busy linking Madrid to Barcelona for our spices, but I suggest to Oliverfa and E_T that both of those workers should then IMMEDIATELY move their lazy carcasses to between Madrid and Pamplona and finish that road at all costs.

horsemen are infinately more powerful than archers, though archer/spear stacks aren't terribly bad (with the critical weakness being that a nice stack of swordsmen will bowl right over them...)

	13-02-2003 22:57									#4
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Hmm...
I have suggested in the Work-force thread that Barcelona should provide it's own means of development. Which means not to move any workers down to work there.

At the time oliverfa and E_T convinced us that we should build more workers, I suggested to get that road over the single mountain by Pamplona started right on, with the use of at least two workers.

We definatly need to get some horsemen built in Madrid.
It's likely that we might need all production cap. for the army in
the time to come...

	13-02-2003 23:01									#5
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat At the time oliverfa and E_T convinced us that we should build more workers, I suggested to get that road over the single mountain by Pamplona started right on, with the use of at least two workers.

FYI, with one worker roading it takes 9 turns for us to complete a road on a mountain tile.

	13-02-2003 23:20									#6
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I know this, Señor...
Therefore we should use at least two of them.

	14-02-2003 01:21									#7
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Does anyone have suggestions (or instructions if you're Togas) as to what I should push GoW for? UnOrthO (as I indicated in another thread) told me that GoW didn't have any satisfactory offers from either ND or Lux, but if ND's willing to split Lux's cities, they may consider that worth their while...

Anyway, what should my objectives be while talking to GoW? Ensure that we do/don't wind up on opposite sides of the war? What might be a very good idea would be to come to a quiet agreement with them that even if we come in on the side of Lux and they come in on the side of ND (or vice versa), we still stay at peace with each other -- there's no reason that we can't both be fighting the others ally and still remain friends. Should I pressure GoW to/not to get involved with the war? I don't know if I can be at all successful in that regard, but I'm willing to take a shot at whatever...

-- adaMada

	14-02-2003 01:30									#8
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ada (and all others)

These issues are currently being discussed in chat. Please meet in #civ3rp chatroom to discuss and debate these things.

What we will do with GoW depends, mostly, on how our conversation with Ghengis fares and what their motives are in this whole thing.

--Togas

	14-02-2003 16:39									#9
	Re: Diplomatic talks with Ghenghis Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Aidun He also told me that GoW can be seen as a vassal of ND. How they became a vassal he didn't tell. Furthermore he considered us more a threat to ND that GoW as we can be seen as rivals and they not.

That is a fairly intelligent way to approach their situation. ND can offer GoW the position of being their left swordarm while Lux can offer them the position of being the left punching bag.

In the same situation I would probably make the same deal.

If possible it might be worthwhile to probe GoW to find out exactly what their relationship with ND currently is.

	14-02-2003 22:28									#10
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Yap, I think so too Thrumble, but I think it's kinda difficult.
Neither Ghengis nor Panzer is answering much about which drums they will play on and when... Our diplomat is having a frustrating job, i guess.