14-02-2003 00:59									#1
	In-House Preview Online: Part 6 Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The sixth and final installment in a detailed preview of Master of Orion III is now online. This six-page article, accompanied by nineteen screenshots, is written by Apolyton CS Co-Owner/Administrator Daniel Quick. It is entitled "Let's Call It A Day".

In late December, 2002, an advanced beta copy of [MoO3 arrived in my mailbox. Since then, I have had the opportunity to examine this much-anticipated turn-based strategy title first hand – both inside and outside of the gameplay itself, says Quick. What has been posted today is the last of six installments of this feature. In this final edition, the following items are on a rather full itinerary: the 'Ledger', Leaders, Espionage and planetary information screens.

On behalf of the Apolyton CS staff and administration, I would like to once again thank MoO3 Producer Constantine Hantzopoulos and the rest of the game's team at both Infogrames Interactive and Quicksilver Software for this opportunity. It's been a blast.

This concludes Apolyton's MoO3 preview feature. Comments on this article are welcomed in this thread. Parts 1-5 of this feature are also available for reading and referencing, accessible from ACS' MoO3 homepage.

--------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	14-02-2003 01:23									#2
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I just read that when you have four leaders, no more show up. I hadn't heard of this before. This same "feature" of moo2 drove me nuts, I'm so happy that its been included.

	14-02-2003 01:46									#3
	Thank you DanQ!! Increase the size of your Attachments

I just finished reading the last installment, and I wanted to say a very sincere thank you.

I can only imagine the work that you have put into this preview (on top of your other work). You have produced a comprehensive and insightful view of MOO3. This has only caused me to be even more anxious for its release. You did a great job!

	14-02-2003 02:00									#4
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Thanks for the spy info. It looks really cool. Did you choose your names for them or did they autopopulate?

	14-02-2003 02:14									#5
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Thanks Dan, part 6 is definitly my favourite of the series. Just a quick question though, in screenshots page, is the "Personnel Screen - Leaders" pic suppose to be like that? Or did you mean to take a pic of that?

	14-02-2003 02:14									#6
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re: spies

I am pretty sure it chooses their names.


re: article

I liked this one much better than the last several...

I think there will be many less complaints this time from those who are wont to complain about these preveiws.

The IGMOO forum in particular is much tamer than it has been regarding past articles.

re: only 4 leaders, no more come:

its a minor point isnt it? and you could think of it as adding to the strategy: do you keep all 4, or discard one in hopes someone even better will come along?

	14-02-2003 02:40									#7
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Well it is pretty annoying that you have to dismiss a leader before a new one can come once you have 4. It would have been much nicer if you you could dismiss one after the new one offered.

On the other hand, we should take anything Dan says with a grain of salt. He's given wrong info in the past, and we know he hasn't actualy bothered to play the game much, and has probably never actualy experienced this to begin with.

	14-02-2003 02:49									#8
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Actually, I would assume he had to have played it to get the screenshots. I doubt he was sent them and asked to write an article about his impressions with only screenshots to guide him. And, I've noticed, when he gives incorrect information in his articles he usually corrects it or concedes the point to another.

	14-02-2003 03:04									#9
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well, the reveiw has received a nuetral response over at IGMOO....which means that people actually liked it, but are afraid to say so after all the apolyton bashing following the last couple, so now they are merely not bashing it (They went back to bashing each other instead)

	14-02-2003 03:10									#10
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quote: Originally posted by niteshade6 Well it is pretty annoying that you have to dismiss a leader before a new one can come once you have 4. It would have been much nicer if you you could dismiss one after the new one offered.

Hmmm, I second your thought on the '4 leader-limit' being a pain in the ...

But as far as I remember in MoO2, it was possible to have leaders propose their help, while having 4 leaders.
IMO the limit to leaders is simply set too low...
BTW does anyone know whether it is possible to have leaders attached to space-vessel as in MoO2?

	14-02-2003 03:33									#11
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quote: But as far as I remember in MoO2, it was possible to have leaders propose their help, while having 4 leaders.

You could have eight total leaders, four for colony and four for ships. If you left one slot open you still had leaders applying for positions but when all eight were filled that was all you got until you let one go.

	14-02-2003 03:33									#12
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quote: But as far as I remember in MoO2, it was possible to have leaders propose their help, while having 4 leaders. IMO the limit to leaders is simply set too low...

No, it wasn't. You could have four governors, and four admirals. Once you had four governors, no more governors would offer to work for you. But you'd still get admirals offering until you had four of them as well.

	14-02-2003 03:48									#13
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Okay, this portion of the review was many times easier to read and relayed some useful information.

The screenshots were great too!


Thank you.


PS: How about revisiting the first 5 portions and rewording them a little?

	14-02-2003 03:52									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon Actually, I would assume he had to have played it to get the screenshots. I doubt he was sent them and asked to write an article about his impressions with only screenshots to guide him.

Actually, since all the ship building screenies show lasers and mass drivers he wouldn't have had to play very long to take them.

quote: And, I've noticed, when he gives incorrect information in his articles he usually corrects it or concedes the point to another.

He still talks about his made up non player empires in parts 4 and 5....

	14-02-2003 04:00									#15
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quote: He still talks about his made up non player empires in parts 4 and 5....

I'll give you that one.

	14-02-2003 04:03									#16
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"Actually, I would assume he had to have played it to get the screenshots. I doubt he was sent them and asked to write an article about his impressions with only screenshots to guide him."

I didn't say he didn't play the game at all, just that he didn't bother to play the game all the way through, or even more then smalll fraction of the way through. Notice how he has not even been in any space battles except for with one scout. So clearly he doesn't have enough info to really know if you need to fire a leader or not when your at 4.

"And, I've noticed, when he gives incorrect information in his articles he usually corrects it or concedes the point to another"

I have never seen him to do that. Perhaps you can refresh my memory about when that has happened? We even went out of our way to correct him about his "non playable empires" in part 4, and he continued to talk about them in part 5.

	14-02-2003 04:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon You could have eight total leaders, four for colony and four for ships. If you left one slot open you still had leaders applying for positions but when all eight were filled that was all you got until you let one go.

My mistake
Thanx for setting me right there, I was remembering the separate ship-leader as an 'applying leaders'-panel...

And if may post my former question again, ship-leaders are out it seems?

	14-02-2003 04:17									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ship leaders are gone...

but maybe there are some leaders that help your combat stats? I dont know.

moo3 isnt about individual ships really, its about task forces of ships...

	14-02-2003 05:13									#19
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The point was about how in moo2 once you filled up your leaders, you weren't offered anymore. Which is, IMO, moronic. Whats more moronic, is that it appears they kept this system for moo3.

	14-02-2003 05:21									#20
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Yeah, the leader thing was annoying in MOO2 and it probably will be in MOO3, but whatever. It is a minor detail and even though it is frustrating, it does add another element of strategy: once you have four leaders do you let one go in hopes of getting a better one or stand pat?

The preview is now over. This last part was good and I liked the examples and manual referrences. Overall, the preview could have been tons better. I wish the preview would have spent some time talking about governments.

	14-02-2003 05:38									#21
	"from entrepreneur to emperor".... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

--Morgan, SMAC.

Thank you, Dan, for the 6-part preview. Well done, aside the lack of inputs regarding fleets, battles, general AI behavior and aggressiveness. With so much financial data regarding the empire's management, MoO3 seems to be quite an ambitious mix of conquest & empire-building, yes, but also a more defined economic simulation than any other 4x TBS: perhaps we can even say....." from emperor to galactic entrepreneur"...or: Capitalism IX: galactic macromanagement.... --moi, MoO3

There's no graphical gimmicks in the data screens, that's for sure, and I know the game is conceived around gameplay for an epic management, but let's just hope that all the data the average player should digest for the months to come shall not be too arid for the eyes, well that windows clicking over plain, arid fonts and screens remain to be seen be my own eyes when I'll play the game.

	14-02-2003 05:42									#22
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Also remember, Dan is playing an old beta from December. So there could be infact more spots for leaders or they could have added something that would let you decide to keep your current leaders or accept the new leader and kick one of your previous leaders out.

Example:

Say you have all 4 spots filled with leaders.

Then "Jojo" wants to join your empire, a box pops up (or something similar) and you get to see that new leaders stats as well as your current ones. Then there are a few options you can choose, like "Keep current leaders" or "Hire Jojo".

When you choose "Keep current leaders" then of course, you won't hire Jojo. But if you choose "Hire Jojo" then it will ask you to choose which leader you want to dismiss. Then click on the one you want to dismiss and Jojo will join your empire.

Of course though, we have to play the game to see what happens.

	14-02-2003 07:24									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Mr.Moustache Also remember, Dan is playing an old beta from December. So there could be infact more spots for leaders or they could have added something that would let you decide to keep your current leaders or accept the new leader and kick one of your previous leaders out.

I think we are stuck with the four-leader thing. Dan's beta copy was late December and at that point they are doing regression testing which means bug squishing and maybe some number tweaking for play balance. High probability QS was in code lock at that point and no features were being added, deleted, or changed.

	14-02-2003 07:52									#24
	Tired of ads?

Have there been any other indications other then Dan about the leader issue? It's still just hard to imagine that Dan would even know, given that he hasn't played the game enough to even have space combat. I got the sense he never had more then one leader to begin with.

	14-02-2003 07:56									#25
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quote: It is perhaps an understatement when I say that there is a lot of material to cover in this article and, given that this is the sixth and final installment of my Master of Orion III preview series, it is best that we dive into it right away. I realize that it may be hefty going at times, but detail is what has been promised and detail is what is going to be delivered. WHERE HAS ALL THE REVENUE GONE Three weeks to the day that this article was published, I promised in an earlier installment of this feature that I would return to the 'Ledger' screen of the Finance menu. Unlike its cousin 'Budget', 'Ledger' is a summary screen where there is no direct action you can take here let alone are required to. I will get to indirect measures of action shortly, but first to analogize the 'Ledger' screen to Civilization III for a moment. CivIII's 'Trade' screen is similar in part to its said counterpart in MoO3. The 'Ledger', however, it is setup on a more macromanagement than micromanagement scale in mind. You are not presented with a meticulous breakdown of individual planets or systems of planets' income and expenses ratios but rather a balance sheet for your galactic empire as a whole. To see a more micromanagement-style setup, you will need to profile planets through the Planets screen – see page 4 for more on this.

This guy's team are slow learners.

Without further ado, in other words, "right away." In order to beat into the ground this detailed preview with yet another instalment, there's a lot to be covered that was purposely held back as a tease. I understand my explanations do not further the reader's grasp of the game's essentials, much less the fine points, but you have been warned!

quote: 'Ledger' is a summary screen where there is no direct action you can take here let alone are required to. I will get to indirect measures of action shortly

Indirect measures of action? No direct action? What's up with that? What are the requirements? An Honours course in English? What's the big deal about a "Summary Screen?" Why will I "need to profile planets" and see page 4? I just want to see what is fun about this game. These six previews are afu, imo.

There is plenty of information from the manual. No question or dispute there. But nothing DanQ wrote will be remembered (or considered important) after I play the game the first time.

Others' mileage may vary.

	14-02-2003 11:07									#26
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Well I'll certainly remember what Dan wrote, it's quite memorable. Even if we ignore the writing style, never before have I seen somebody write 36 pages about a game he didn't even bother to play for more then a very short time. Why he would do that will still be one of those mysteries that haunts me forever. I bet he won't even buy the game when it comes out, but yet he's a co-creator of a moo3 fansite. It's just too wierd to forget.

	14-02-2003 12:39									#27
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Um, its called Apolyton Civilisation Site. Its nice of Dan and Mark to make space on the server for other games too. Thanks again !

-Jam

	14-02-2003 15:02									#28
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No, it's a Masters of Orion Fansite, that just happens to be linked to a Civilization Fansite, and which still uses the original name of the Civ site. But that doesn't change the fact that's it's a MoO fansite. Open your eyes.

	14-02-2003 19:31									#29
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Cudos to Dan, even if his writing skills are not uniformly stellar (or just not utilized properly in this case).

As for the genuity of his Moo3 passion, who cares? The man has definately earned his wings as the man behind THE website for classic TBS-gaming.
That probably does not leave a whole lot of time for gaming, still he stays on the job.
Speaking from experience, I'll have you know that very few people who actually have a life and are not still living with (or off) their parents, have the time to do any serious strategy gaming. Reality bites.
Let's be grateful that upon receiving the Beta, Dan did not just dig into it - like most of us would - not to be heard from unless to air frustration. Instead he sat down, wrote and published the most comprehensive preview I have ever seen (for free).
I, for one, is glad that he's not as much a hardcore gamer as he could be, otherwise I probably would not have the opportunity to write this, since Apolyton would then long since have been taken down due to lousy economy

	14-02-2003 21:06									#30
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quote: Originally posted by niteshade6 No, it's a Masters of Orion Fansite, that just happens to be linked to a Civilization Fansite, and which still uses the original name of the Civ site. But that doesn't change the fact that's it's a MoO fansite. Open your eyes.

Hmm, definitely says Apolyton Civilisation Site at the top of my screen. Civilisation is the inspiration behind the site. Everything else has subsections because it is like Civilisation, inspired by Civilisation or just talked about enough by Civ fans that Dan & Mark gave it its own forum. Should the MoO3 pages be treated as if they are a totally seperate (sub)site? Why?