14-02-2003 03:36									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The guy cheated on his wife. So what? It makes him a liar and a cheat.[quote] Perjury. Fraud. Synonyms, and crimes. [quote]She's a murderer. That makes her unfit to share the same street with me.

Aren't you in favour of rehabilitation for other crimes? Just asking...





I hate this ****ing server

	14-02-2003 03:37									#62
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This is a silly discussion.

So I must get in on it!!!

A marriage license is not a contract it is an agreement with the state (your government) not your spouse.

License - The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal.

What do we need permission for? To file taxes jointly and get discounts, and the like. It is not a contract stating that you will have sex with them and only them.

What other contract is their in marriage? Religious? Not always, and besides the state does not recognize the church.

Thus, this:

quote: Except when they violate a marriage contract

holds no water.

Personally, I feel he got what he deserved (insofarasmuch as it helped her get over him...over...and over....and over), and now she will get what she deserves.

	14-02-2003 03:39									#63
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I'd respond to the conservative theocracy troll of Sava's but I think orange did a good job of defending marriage.

quote: If that means don't get married - fine. Don't get married. Nothing wrong with that either.

orange.

quote: This woman should have left her husband when she first found out, rather than trying to shed 20 pounds and giving him sex on demand. She's dumb for staying with him.

orange

Some people would rather die than get divorced. I don't know if this woman felt this way, but why should she be faulted for trying to save her marriage?

Still doesn't excuse her actions. Murder is murder.

	14-02-2003 03:41									#64
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Adultery a crime? I join others when I say: "Don't be ridiculous". Cheating on your wife involves nothing criminal.

Oh, and the woman should get the chair.

	14-02-2003 03:42									#65
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quote: Originally posted by orange Perjury. Fraud. Synonyms, and crimes. Aren't you in favour of rehabilitation for other crimes? Just asking...

Legally, perjury only occurs under oath.

And fraud is a deception practiced to get unlawful gain. So if I lie and say that I've never slept with another woman to get married to a rich woman, then I've committed fraud.

Lying isn't against the law, and neither is cheating if I don't see some illegal benefit from it.

	14-02-2003 03:45									#66
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As to the rehabilitation comment: we'll discuss it after she's had some time to think about it. Say 20 years.

But given the US' jail system, she'll be out in 10, I'm sure.

	14-02-2003 03:47									#67
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obiwan, move to Saudi Arabia then

	14-02-2003 03:48									#68
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Cheating is awful.

Murder is far, far worse.

I hope this woman spends a loooooong time in prison. I don't care if her husband was the most philandering person around. She robbed a person of his life.

	14-02-2003 03:49									#69
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Oh, and if she felt getting her ass cheated on and dumped by some deadbeat was bad, then she's about to take a reality trip.

I don't gloat about her probable fate in the prison system, but she's going to experience things that are a lot closer to extenuating circumstances than catching your husband fiddling around with his secretary is.

	14-02-2003 03:50									#70
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obiwan, move to Saudi Arabia then?

And live with the Godless Mohammedians?

	14-02-2003 03:53									#71
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yeah, you like conservative theocracies... go to Saudi Arabia... big deal, they call their god, "Allah" You'll get used to it.

	14-02-2003 04:05									#72
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Have I even said that women should be stoned for adultery?

I'd rather have freedom of religion than a theocracy. You have a more vibrant Christianity when people are free to leave and dismiss the church.

It's also essential to human rights, that to force people to practice does great harm to their conscience. I'd rather win people over fair and square than by fiat of law.

How about you Sava? Do you believe in freedom of religion not merely freedom from religion?

	14-02-2003 04:20									#73
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I don't care what people believe... just do it in private and not in public schools or my government.

Win people over fair and square? Then tell Christians to raise their children with knowledge of all religions instead of brainwashing their youth. See how many followers you have then.

	14-02-2003 04:50									#74
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quote: Then tell Christians to raise their children with knowledge of all religions instead of brainwashing their youth. See how many followers you have then.

And tell non-religious people to do the same. We'd have much better understanding between everybody.

Why should Christians be subjected to rules that no one else has to do?

	14-02-2003 04:52									#75
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it's not a crime...but i think she did what everyone THINKS about doing when they've been cheated on

	14-02-2003 04:55									#76
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There is a reason people don't act out what they think though.

If I acted out even half of my fantasies...

	14-02-2003 04:56									#77
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exactly

	14-02-2003 06:30									#78
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quote: Originally posted by devilmunchkin it's not a crime...but i think she did what everyone THINKS about doing when they've been cheated on

absolutely

	14-02-2003 06:33									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Legally, perjury only occurs under oath.

I know that. But having criminal laws against lying in any form opens up the debate for criminal law against lying in this case.

quote: And fraud is a deception practiced to get unlawful gain. So if I lie and say that I've never slept with another woman to get married to a rich woman, then I've committed fraud.

Yes, but "unlawful gain" is a grey area in my opinion.

	14-02-2003 06:38									#80
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quote: Originally posted by orange I know that. But having criminal laws against lying in any form opens up the debate for criminal law against lying in this case.

Not at all. There are a few simple rules:

don't lie in court
don't lie to the police
don't lie to get someone to give you money

	14-02-2003 07:19									#81
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how are they any different then 'don't lie to prolong a marriage for your own benefit'?

	14-02-2003 10:08									#82
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You're kidding right?

	14-02-2003 10:09									#83
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so defend your position, Imran.

	14-02-2003 10:10									#84
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Her mistake was going after the husband. She should have gone after the other woman

	14-02-2003 10:12									#85
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that is to say: if someone can be legally in trouble for lying under oath, to an officer of the law, to obtain money, why is it 'ridiculous' to question why it is not legally wrong to lie about to a partner in a marriage contract? In other words: why does the act become so incredibly different in terms of punishment between dealing with oaths, police, or money then when dealing with a civil contract between two people? I know what the existing difference is, I want you to defend the theoretical difference between the two.

	14-02-2003 10:50									#86
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Orange, your arguments here are almost as spurious as floyd's are on economics.

	14-02-2003 10:51									#87
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and you have yet to show why. You've scoffed, ignored, rolled your eyes, and said 'whatever' but as of yet you really haven't made much of an argument.

Invitation stands.

	14-02-2003 10:55									#88
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Orange, here's the thing: you've invited me to explain why there's a qualitative difference between lying in a courtroom under oath and lying to your wife about whether or not you're plugging the maid.

The difference is there, it's obvious, and it's completely inexplicable to someone who chooses not to see it.

It's like trying to explain to Floyd why there's a difference between charging him taxes to give to the poor and letting poor people steal his wallet.

That's why I compared you two.

	14-02-2003 10:57									#89
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Now please explain why it's okay to jail somebody for cheating on his wife, but not because he called in sick in order to go fishing.

	14-02-2003 11:00									#90
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I still don't see the philosophical difference between lying in one instance and lying in another. Both are 'wrong'. Now, if Clinton lies under oath about his sex life, which I support since it's none of anyone's damn business, but gets impeached for it...why is that a crime whereas lying to a spouse whom with you have a 'contract' based on fidelity is not? Ok, so this becomes grounds for a divorce...so what?

I don't think the difference is 'obvious'. I think there are differences, but the root crime is the same. There are circumstances that I can think of where lying under oath would be 'permissable' or forgivable, but I can't think of many, if any times where cheating on a spouse could be forgivable when it is an expressed part of your marriage to that person that you will be faithful and exclusive.

I understand why you compared me to Floyd, and to be honest I'm not 100% serious about this...but am I upset that cheating on a spouse is regarded as just something that happens and that should be accepted - you bet!