14-02-2003 17:09									#1
	Meet The Neighbors Increase Your PM Length

I thought we could discuss some of the other teams, and try to guess what to expect.

Here are my random thoughts.....

Chinese
Unlike our PTW Demo Game where the Chinese are peace-loving pacifists , These Chinese may act differently.
The only military Civ in the Comp.
They are the only team who can produce Archers straight up, and could do an archer rush if they are interested.
But they are more likely to head for the Wheel/horseman route, and have their first war with a pack of veteran horsemen.
They must be pruned by an alliance before they get the chance to upgrade their horsemen to Riders.

Egyptians
Will study the wheel and could go for a War Chariot rush.
This will certainly ensure they have an early GA, which they could use to rex and establish their territory early.
Or they could mass produce more chariots and try to do as much damage to their neighbors as possible.
Otherwise, they could play peacefully, and fly under the radar.
They would still be smart to produce chariots as a mobile defense, and so are therefore open to a forced GA
Their revenge would be swift though, to any team who tries it, so the alliances must be set in stone beforehand.

French
Flying below the Radar.
Will concentrate on Rexing

Indians
Flying below the Radar.
Will concentrate on Rexing for space, and not be too concerned about resources.
Are probably planning a huge push with war Elephants.
Will need to be pruned before they get Chivalry.

Persians
These guys are all about gaining Iron, and using their immortals to establish an early dominance in the game.
Pray we do not have these guys as neighbors.
They have only the ancient era to dominate, and they will attack.
Even if they don’t have iron…you are probably still not safe.
They will do anything to ensure a source. And if they don’t have it, probably their neighbor will, and they will risk an archer/horseman rush to get it.
Prepare for war

Ottomans
Will concentrate on Horsemen to ensure they have plenty of units for their Sapahi UU
This will be when they make their move, but everyone will be expecting it, and they will be killed off by an alliance well before they get a chance.
They could join a limited horseman / Knight war, as they will have the units ready for it.

Arabs
The Germans have played very well in the current demo game.
They will go the same route as China, and push for the horsemen.
They may wait for the Ansar UU before going for their big push.
They will need to be pruned before they get that unit.
They are also the only expansionist team, and we can expect them to pump out those scouts and take every goodie hut available.
Most likely, they will be early leaders in tech, and a tech alliance from the other local teams will be required to catch up.
Oh….And don’t annoy them, by building too close.

Please discuss........

	14-02-2003 19:28									#2
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If we're next to Arabia, I can see only one outcome...

	15-02-2003 01:11									#3
	Got spare money?

Yeah... the Arabs may not necesarily wait for Ansar Wariors.

Check out the pic Trip posted in the public PTW game forum

	15-02-2003 01:13									#4
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They'll make use of whatever they have. I don't think it will be any different for any other civ. I strongly advocate that Apolytonia is ready for anything at any time, even if we end up a bit less expansive, etc.

	16-02-2003 01:10									#5
	Got spare money?

We voted for the Cartiginians, why? Now we're afraid of aggression from our neighbors, because they picked more aggressive civs. We should have seen this coming, is it too late for a revote???

I disagree with:

Indians - horses are always avalable by the Middle Ages - War Elephants are a joke.

Ottomans - we have plenty of time to at least Mortally Wound them before they get thier UU.

Persians - a crapshoot - it can be difficult or impossible to get Iron, in the process of getting it, they may need an archer rush in an unfavorable situation.

Arabs - let's be careful.

	17-02-2003 00:08									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

I dont think NDE is no different from other site players. They are out there to win. Im thoroughly convinced that we can have good relations with them, even though they have not been so friendly in PTW demo game.

All we can say from PTW demo game is that:
-They are damn well good players
-They are not gonna hold back until their UU


and once again they are the only exp trait civ. Am I seeing that only the Germans are agreeing with me that my favorite trait is the best trait ever?

	17-02-2003 10:57									#7
	On Neu Demogyptica Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think I'll elaborate a bit on that.

I can safely declare myself the Neu Demogyptica psychoanalyst expert, after much discussion with Darekill, and plenty o' observeration as well.

Their play style is as follows:

They will use their expansionist trait to its greatest, building 3 or 4 scouts in the early game period. They will try to attain the early tech and power advantage over everyone else at this time, sucking up goody huts whereever they spread. However, this is their most vulnerable time. They will most likely have 1 warrior or spearman defending their capital during this period. However, this period of vulnerability will be short-lived...

To Neu Demogyptica, survival is paramount. They will do whatever it takes to survive. They have great instincts for this, and will use every possible advantage to ensure that they will be the last civ standing.

This means they will be a powerful ally, or a deadly enemy. We have to play our interests here. If we have common interests with Neu Demogyptica, then we have a chance at a potent friend to back us up. However, don't expect too much from them in a straight-up mutual protection pact, or something of that nature. If they smell danger, they won't bite. I'll reiterate again: they're out to keep alive at all costs. If that means betrayal, then so be it. Standing on the fence waiting to see who the victor is is always safer than backing up an ally.

They will know when they're weak, and they'll know when others are weak. I'm sure they spend a ton of time figuring when to do certain things, making sure to cover their actions at all times, whilst constantly preparing for what they have planned next.

Does this all sound foreboding? Sure it does. They're good at what they do. There 4 things that we have to do to potentially defeat them: 1) be more prepared than they are. Units are good. Lots of units are better. 2) don't let them read your actions. Always make your intentions ambiguious, and don't become predictable. They pick up on patterns quickly and use that to their advantage with great effect. 3) If they're too close for comfort and you discover this early on, try to whack them by 3000 BC with a few Archers. Is it cruel? Sure, but this is the only time where you will have the advantage over them. And finally, 4), don't get too comfy with them by your side. Winning and living doesn't always mean being best friends with everyone...

	17-02-2003 11:37									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

I have to agree with most of what Trip posted and mostly defer to his judgement on those things I don't know about.

We've noticed something very similar by working with them, but obviously we don't have the wealth of time talking to Darekill that Trip now has

However, we have reason to believe from something we've seen of late that Neu Dem actually does not scrutinize every aspect of the game. There are apparently some things that they do not watch as closely.

Perhaps that's just a symptom of multiplayer democracy games where the person handling the save file doesn't take the time to record every last little thing and they don't have time to scrutinize every last little decision regarding everything they do with theiir civilization, but especially given the systems that some Apolyton teams are using (Vondrack's spreadsheets being a good example), that may be our one edge.

	17-02-2003 11:43									#9
	Tired of ads?

Anything that a team doesn't notice is an advantage for us... our team will be large and thorough enough to see every last bit of what goes on. As you said, that will be one of our advantages.

In any case, heed my words or perish!

	18-02-2003 12:58									#10
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I think we will definitely have info on the German team, but do we know anything about the strategies and members of the other teams?

I vaguely remember reading people posting they were joining the French team.

	18-02-2003 13:57									#11
	Got spare money?

Thrumble brings up a good point...

We need to start some discussion about each of the other sites/teams and what we know about them.

Unlike the internal PTWDG, we don't know a whole lot about these people and anything we can put together would help.

	19-02-2003 00:05									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't really know anything about the other civs, so I guess I can't subjectively speak on anyone.

As far as our civilization seems to stand based on experience, you can look at our own C3DG. We are playing on level emperor and started off in one of the worst starting positions you can imagine. There was little hope we would survive, yet we pulled it off. While I know that the dynamics of playing with human beings are totally different, I do think it says something about our own flexibility when playing on such a high difficulty level and being succesful in a really crappy starting situation.

I do want to speculate on the Civ Fanatics Center though. I seem to remember their first game was played at the difficulty level of Monarch (which is slightly easier, though I think their current game is at the emperor level). So they don't really have as much experience in difficult situations as we do. I also seem to recall that their game was about to break up at one point because of roll playing problems. I'm pretty sure roll playing won't play a huge part in this game, but I do think that says something about the cohesiveness of their civilization.

	19-02-2003 00:14									#13
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Just a couple things:

After the first was was won, things were over, and the game was ours. From that point onwards, the difficulty level wasn't really important.

Also, with a starting position like the C3DG, our chances of winning grow infinitely smaller. It's either war or die at that point.

	19-02-2003 16:23									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Does anyone here know anything about members and/or playstyles of any of the other teams besides the German one? Please, something you may think trivial could very well be something we can use against them. We have some very brilliant minds on this team and they are a terrible thing to waste.

	19-02-2003 17:45									#15
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I am currently doing research on whatever DG from these teams I can find.

	19-02-2003 18:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Thrumble Does anyone here know anything about members and/or playstyles of any of the other teams besides the German one? Please, something you may think trivial could very well be something we can use against them. We have some very brilliant minds on this team and they are a terrible thing to waste.

I would say that the members on the GOW team are very aware of the tactics that will be used on the CDG (Persian) team. Especially if GhengisFarb has any leading role.

	20-02-2003 01:33									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I would say that the members on the GOW team are very aware of the tactics that will be used on the CDG (Persian) team. Especially if GhengisFarb has any leading role.

So do other people

hee hee

More seriously, now... any specifics you'd like to share that we don't already know about?

	21-02-2003 15:16									#18
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Not without giving away some of GOW's tactics.

I do believe however, appointing a GOW as an Ambassador to CDG, may work to our advantage.