18-02-2001 09:30									#1
	Column #154; By Jay Bee Suffering from ads?

Jay Bee doesn't subscribe to the popular opinion that CivII is on its way out the door, and is prepared to back his statement up in his article entitled "Civ2 Dying Out? Not At All".

Comments/questions are welcomed here, or you may opt to contact the author directly.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

	18-02-2001 11:16									#2
	Got spare money?

Jay Bee makes some good points. This game system is not falling off, but it will when something better comes along. The hope is that will be civ-3, but even so, it will be sometime before civ-3 is optimized for scenario design. There will always be people who play civ-2, but make no mistake, it will die. It is the nature of software. How many people still play civ-1? I bet there was a time when you could not imagine not playing it, but now it is only a happy memory for most players. For the time being, things will be strong for civ-2. If civ-3 bombs, then civ-2 could go on for at least another decade, but if it does fail, it will mean the end of the franchise, as I can't see a civ-4 if civ-3 is no good. I have been on this civ ride since 1983(The board game), and I don't ever want it to end.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

	18-02-2001 14:28									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Firstly - great item - agree with it all!

Secondly - thanks for the credit. Shame my "prime" was one and a half scenarios!

Thirdly - it does prompt the question as to why Test of Time is not as popular as one might have expected. I think the need to 'create' a scenario with one's own 'hand-drawn' images of units and icons has been marred to some extent with the latest generation of games. Despite the laudable scenario-authoring tools that Test of Time brings, arguably it has become almost 'too professional' for the enthusiasts to get a sense of 'ownership' of their own scenarios - being either compelled to use the 'official' sprites or the awkward expectation on players to re-arrange their hard drive so they can play with the sprites off. I hope Civ3 allows scenario authors to somehow create their own units or terrain (for instance) without reducing them to looking completely 'out of place'. A 3D-esque modelling sprite editor as a suppliment for scenario authoring would be sensational (or would I have as much luck hoping for global peace and an end to world hunger?).

	18-02-2001 14:59									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Yes, Civ2 is not dying out as long as we get no better game For the moment it´s very alive, despite newer Civgames, and we´ll see what the future brings...
I hope for a great Civ3, that would be the only reason for me to quit playing Civ2...but now Civ2 is still the first choice!

	19-02-2001 10:38									#5
	Suffering from ads?

A great article, Jay Bee, and I can tell you so, I'm supposed to know something about columns and articles...

Besides, Civ2 will keep alive till the day Civ3 or other game provides a better way to create scenarios... Civ2 FW is making history, I strongly doubt any other game counts with such an Internet community as Civ2 does. I just hope Firaxis takes good note of this lesson and don't forget people who wants to play and create good scenarios...

P.S: I think there's a slight mention to me and Shaka at the end of the column, isn't it?

	19-02-2001 00:34									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Stupid Dps!
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited February 18, 2001).]

	19-02-2001 00:36									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hey Fiera, I agree with that!

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited February 18, 2001).]

	21-02-2001 04:21									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I agree 100% with Jay Bee. Even today I'm still happily playing the game I bought more than 3 years ago, thanks to the availability of all the wonerful scenarios here and elsewhere.

	21-02-2001 14:45									#9
	Tired of ads?

Civ2 will probably be alive and well on my hard drive for some time even after civ3 comes out - EVEN IF civ3 is the awesome game we are hoping for. I still play civ1 from time to time, although I admit that become less frequent as time goes by. I just refuse to give up the HUGE mass of outstanding scenarios I haven't gotten to just because there'e a new game out.

the only thing that could get me to retire my civ1 and civ2 games is if the scenario editor in civ3 is good enough to ACCURATELY duplicate the gameplay of civ1 (which civ2 cannot) and civ2, AND has a converter to be able to use all my old civ2 scenarios. Curse me if I'm going to give up those great mods!

	22-02-2001 01:07									#10
	Got spare money?

While I agree that multi-player and scenario making contribute to the longevity of Civilization II, I am inclined to attribute its lasting appeal to what seems to me to be the most obvious factor -- that Civ II is a tremendously rewarding gaming experience for the [b]single player[b].

Single-players comprise the vast majority of computer gamers. Although multi-players and scenario-players/makers represent computer gaming at a higher plane, it's the casual gamers killing an hour or two at their computer who are more typical of the Civilization II players. For them, Civilization II is a exquisitely balanced, rigorously challenging game with near infinite replayability -- even at King level. The typical casual gamer will try out and tire of a number of games within a year but will always return to Civ II.

Civilization II is the king of the single-player games.
[This message has been edited by Everyman (edited February 21, 2001).]