14-02-2003 17:57									#1
	2194 Gigamap Version 0.95 PBEM Test #1 Suffering from ads?

JAPANESE - Academia
AXIS - SAS
CHINESE - EmuGod
AMERICANS - Pap1723
BRITISH - Conmcb25
SOVIETS - FiGu

I know Conmcb and Choke have expressed interest in being in this test, so hurry up as the spots will be full fast.

Pap

Last edited by Pap1723 on 17-02-2003 at 04:37

	14-02-2003 18:18									#2
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OK Brits for Conmcb25.

The scenario is here:

http://www.historic-battles.com/219...4Gigamap095.zip

Hopefully we can avoid a .scn change. If there are nay changes we can make a rules.txt change or whatever in mid game and keep going. Since most of the other old dog threads have died I encourage any of the other playtesters to sign up here.

Comments about this version can go here at HB:

http://www.historic-battles.com/yab...ex.php?board=75;action=/forums/display;threadid=996

Or at the Apoly thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...439#post1727439

	14-02-2003 18:40									#3
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The Soviets for me!!!

	15-02-2003 15:28									#4
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Germans here

	15-02-2003 22:54									#5
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Japan for me!

	15-02-2003 22:55									#6
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I can take China or Japan, it's your call.

	17-02-2003 06:57									#7
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Get us started Academia.

	17-02-2003 07:04									#8
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Oakie dokie.
Playing my turn right now

	17-02-2003 07:44									#9
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Mmm... that new "infantry" unit is extremely powerful.
Defense value: 8!!! too much!!
Moreover, all the US/British cities in all the southeast asia have more than 3 units of this kind. Wait! some have 6.
You understand that my imperial army and marine units are useless against those "infantry" defenders. Even my Zeroes can´t kill them.
Mmm... is that real? I´ve never seen infantry units been able to defend themselves against fighters...
At least not in a ww2 game.

Where are the AA guns??? I really miss these units.

And you also eliminated the werhmatch!! why???
But you give me the chance of building imperial army and infantry units. Mmm...
Ah! the infantry can also attack airplanes

And about stackable ocean squares...when I attacked an american naval transport, the land units that it was carrying didn´t sink with the ship!!!


Do you really want me to begin this game?
I´m not sure if i´d like to play with these conditions.
Please, nothing personal against you Pap... it´s just i don´t feel comfortable with the current design of the scenario. That´s all

	17-02-2003 09:32									#10
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Academia

Pap, SAS, Darius and I have been around and around on these issues.

Including several 1 vs 1 games between Pap and I and SAS and I.

With the CIV 2 engine there are as you know limitations. And some of these decisions are comprimises or the best of two undesireable features.

I dont have time here but we have discussed this stuff at lenght at HB in the 2194 forum. That will give you the background if you desire to understand why certain decisions were made.

This is getting better all the time.

And fighters taking out Infantry on one pass. I dont think that is realistic.

I encourage you to read the HB threads before you decide to leave. This scenario is getting really close!



http://www.historic-battles.com/yab...ex.php?board=75

	17-02-2003 10:06									#11
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quote: I encourage you to read the HB threads before you decide to leave. This scenario is getting really close!

Ok dude.
I won´t lie you, i´m not planning to read all the threads about this game. Moreover, i´m not one of the guys who really helped Pap with the hundreds of the tests he´ve already done

quote: And fighters taking out Infantry on one pass. I dont think that is realistic.

Sorry, but i don´t believe the idea of a infantry shooting down a fighter.

I totally understand your point of view.
And as i always say: "YOUR SCENARIO, YOUR CHOICE"

In some way it was my fault. I should have tested the new version before playing my turn here

Let´s be honest. I´ve made my own scenarios too!
I know i can´t satisfy everybody and many times i had to choose between different options.
Some people may like it, other don´t

And i´m sure that many of you don´t like my Iron Curtain scenario or don´t agree with i don´t know; attack values, location of units, etc.

But in this case; i found three things that really annoy me.
1) Superinfantry units
Sorry, but i won´t change my mind. 8 points of defense? too much for an infantry
2) No AA weapons
3) Stackable ocean squares
As i told you before. I consider this an error. When I attacked an american naval transport, the land units that it was carrying didn´t sink with the ship!!!


So, if you aren´t planning to change these "conditions" i´m not going to play.
I just quit and leave my place for other guy, Emugod perhaps.

PLEASE!!! DON´T GET MY WRONG!!!!
Nothing personal against Pap. As you said, you made your tests, and have your reasons to set those values.
I don´t like them / don´t agree / don´t feel comfortable
That´s all

I hope i made myself clear

	17-02-2003 13:04									#12
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I haven't tested this version yet, but if those infantry units are beating charging marines than something isn't right (thought we went over this weeks ago ). The essence of the Pacific theatre was indeed amphibious infantry attacking fortified infantry. If one marine unit can't kill a fortified infantry unit 70-80% of the time, then this is seriously unrealistic.

	17-02-2003 18:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Darius871 I haven't tested this version yet, but if those infantry units are beating charging marines than something isn't right (thought we went over this weeks ago ). The essence of the Pacific theatre was indeed amphibious infantry attacking fortified infantry. If one marine unit can't kill a fortified infantry unit 70-80% of the time, then this is seriously unrealistic.

Darius I haven't kept track by writing down every combat, however my feel would suggest a greater then 50% sucess rate irt Jar Heads vs Grunts.

And Ive done close to 10 of these types of combats thus far as the Japs.

	17-02-2003 19:31									#14
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I've actually been completely considering moving the infantry defense to 7, and I am going to give them x2 vs air. My reasoning behind this is the following...
AA Batteries were removed because they didn't serve an important service in the game. Infantry have now taken the place of the AA as the main defensive units. By giving them a defense of 7 and giving them x2 vs Air, they will be built as the main defensive unit and I can get rid of some of the infantry in the cities. I am treating infantry like they are also AA infantry units. Think of them as having AA Batteries as part of their units. Trust me, the Japanese can still run rampant in the Pacific early on. Ask Con about that. And yes I know the units that are being carried by the transports are not destroyed. I have not posted this here, but the house rule is that the untis must be disbanded by the player on the next turn.

Pap

	18-02-2003 01:21									#15
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Well Academia I think you are making a mistake but then its your opinion. And at this level the AA units were attached to Infantry. Its not so much Infantry shooting down fighters as it is using fighters for there purpose, to protect bombers and shoot down other planes.

But it looks like you have made up your mind so I guess thats the end of it. I still think you are making a mistake. But then thats my opinion. No hard feeling from me.

	18-02-2003 01:24									#16
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Im sending a PM and email to Greeny he wanted to play this but I haven't seen him around lately.

I say if he doesn't show soon then we ask EmuGod to do Japan and Pap can do the Chinese.

Sound like a plan?

	18-02-2003 01:30									#17
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quote: But it looks like you have made up your mind so I guess thats the end of it. I still think you are making a mistake. But then thats my opinion. No hard feeling from me.

Of course dude! no problem
We think different, that´s all

Good luck with your test

	18-02-2003 03:06									#18
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CRAP!

	18-02-2003 04:21									#19
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Oh wait if Academia doesn't want to be the Japanese I can play them.

	18-02-2003 07:36									#20
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Choke I thought you swore off this scenario but hey if you want to play I say start us out!

Its a lot different than 06. I would check out HB and the aploy scenario forum to find out the changes.

	18-02-2003 15:46									#21
	Got spare money?

is there any slot free for me to join you???

	18-02-2003 23:50									#22
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I didn't swear off the scenario, I just left for a week and lost my position in all the games I was playing.

	19-02-2003 00:03									#23
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No worries Choke, glad to have you on board.

And I would really like to play this one but Im leaving for a month in about three weeks so Ill give the Brits to Jim Panse. Jim you want em? Im still going to keep an eye on this playtest. And Choke hold off starting I think Pap had 096 ready, if he does he will post it soon. We found a few things in the 1 vs 1 duel he and I are doing at HB. I think Pap made the changes I just haven't had a chance to talk to him.

	19-02-2003 05:56									#24
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I'll try to play here, but I may be tied dowin with other work. If so, I'll tell you gys in advance. I'm hoping that China wont be that major of a problem to play.

	19-02-2003 18:09									#25
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if you would be that kind giving the brits to me i´ll teach the germans a lesson they will not forget too soon ....

yep, i´ll take ´em

	19-02-2003 18:11									#26
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if you would be that kind giving the brits to me i´ll teach the germans a lesson they will not forget too soon ....

yep, i´ll take the brits and kick ´em

	19-02-2003 18:12									#27
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my damned internet explorer ..... *shaking my head*
damn bill gates!

	25-02-2003 20:12									#28
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Are we going to play this on?

	26-02-2003 00:54									#29
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Oh yeah, I will have my turn up tommorow.

Last edited by Choke on 26-02-2003 at 01:22