15-02-2003 05:40									#1
	HoI, EU, or what? Support Apolyton

OK, I need (purposeful diction, like: I NEED more meth) a wwII (or historically comparable) war/rsc management sim with a level of complexity/gameplay comprible to Alpha Centauri.

Judging from thel reviews outside pcg, Hearts of Iron isn't it.

Is the EU series a viable substitute for anything made by Sid Meyers? Or is Hearts of Iron actually good enough?

'just doesn't know anymore'
Sr. Lev

	15-02-2003 06:40									#2
	Got spare money?

Hearts of Iron is good. If you want a "Germany declares war on Poland every game on September 1939" kind of game, then HOI isn't your game... it's an alternate history game, so some things can change.

Europa Universalis II is my favorite game, and with a new 1.06 patch that came out not too long ago, it's even better.

	15-02-2003 20:28									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Both EU(preferable no.2) and HoI is good games, the best one is IMHO EU2, but HoI is enjoyable too. I play them regulary, and have problems getting out of their sphere of influence...!

	15-02-2003 20:36									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well the goverment policy decsions\politics are less advanced in HOI than in SMAC and EU2 and the unit developing in EU2 ar much less advanced than in SMAC and HOI otherwise they are IMHO about the same level of complexity. But I think they both have a much more realitic as simulation than SMAC. I much prefer EU2 to SMAC and HOI but thats mainly because it is my favorite historical period. They are all three very good games.

	15-02-2003 20:46									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'd recomend EU2. HOI is good, but it hasn't been patched up as much as EU2 yet.

	15-02-2003 21:55									#6
	Got spare money?

Is HoI out in the UK yet.

	16-02-2003 00:37									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

OK, I need (purposeful diction, like: I NEED more meth) a wwII (or historically comparable) war/rsc management sim with a level of complexity/gameplay comprible to Alpha Centauri.

If it's resource management you are after, then you can't go wrong with archaelogically excavating a copy of Imperialism II somewhere.

Europa Universalis II probably satisfies the complexity requirement, but I don't know what you mean by "historically comparable to ww2". I'm not a WW2 buff myself.

EU2 Reviews
Imperialism II Reviews
Hearts of Iron Reviews

	16-02-2003 04:41									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Imperialism II looks quite appealing, and yes my three consonant word 'rsc' was intended to sloppily abbreviate 'resource.'

By 'wwII or historically [sic.] comparable,' though, I guess I meant pre modern day, post-cartridged bullet.

I'm actually looking for a new medium to take a SMAC multiplayer rivalry and 'wwII or historically comprible' was the vague term agreed upon by all parties.

Personally, can anyone here recommend the EU games or anything else over HOI in terms of complex, not overwhelmingly combat oriented, multi-play?

thanks
Sr. Lev

	17-02-2003 05:40									#9
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Trip Hearts of Iron is good. If you want a "Germany declares war on Poland every game on September 1939" kind of game, then HOI isn't your game... it's an alternate history game, so some things can change.

Actually it doesn't always happen that way. I was just playing with it again yesterday and had the "Poland cedes Danzig" version of the events.
War didn't come until early 1940 IIRC.
The Winter War didn't occur thereafter either.

	17-02-2003 11:23									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by ravagon Actually it doesn't always happen that way. I was just playing with it again yesterday and had the "Poland cedes Danzig" version of the events. War didn't come until early 1940 IIRC. The Winter War didn't occur thereafter either.

Eh?

I think what you're saying is somewhat along the lines of what I said, i.e. things won't be the same every time.

	17-02-2003 11:25									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Sr. Lev_1 Personally, can anyone here recommend the EU games or anything else over HOI in terms of complex, not overwhelmingly combat oriented, multi-play?

EU2 really depends on what you want to do. If you want to be the Ottoman Empire and conquer the Balkans, the Middle East and Africa, go for it. If you want to be Venice and rack up the dough, you can do that too. It depends on who you play and how you want to play. Certainly complex, and there's multi-play, which is a lot of fun too.

	17-02-2003 13:52									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Trip Eh? I think what you're saying is somewhat along the lines of what I said, i.e. things won't be the same every time.

Cleverly I managed to read the "isn't" in your post as "is". D'oh.
Apologies.

	19-02-2003 10:51									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Quite alright.

	27-02-2003 21:49									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I should have HoI by the weekend.

	27-02-2003 21:58									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Weeeeee!!! Enjoy!

	06-03-2003 09:39									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Hearts of Iron post 1.03b is excellent. No more conquering Europe by 1940 though.

EU2 is empire building. HoI is strategic level warfare.

	06-03-2003 19:32									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think HoI needs a bit more patching, but with Paradox, you know you'll get great patching, so there's really no risk in buying the game. However, EU2 has just received (months after release, no less) a stellar patch that, while making the game more difficult, makes you face a wonderfully delicate balancing act between war, stability, economy, religion, etc.

As I've only just got my copy of HoI recently, perhaps I've yet to discover its greatness. But I have to say that at this point, EU2 is the better game if you don't mind long periods of planned peace as you try to secure allies and the requisite domestic development to handle the invasions that no doubt you plan to launch against your pesky neighbors.

By the way, in contrast to the broken AI in MOO3, you *will* get pounded in EU2 if you don't play in a smart manner...

	11-03-2003 13:17									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I will het heart of Iron. Does it allow you to research jet plane, missiles, and nuclear weapon. I was reading than book recent on old plane. One of the Germany Aircraft Company in 1936 make than jet fighter which the Germany
airforce want, but was turn down by the government for other reason. Let see Germany invade Polland with jet fighter and bomder and nuked Warsword with than 20 kton
bomb.

	11-03-2003 18:02									#19
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff I will het heart of Iron. Does it allow you to research jet plane, missiles, and nuclear weapon. I was reading than book recent on old plane. One of the Germany Aircraft Company in 1936 make than jet fighter which the Germany airforce want, but was turn down by the government for other reason. Let see Germany invade Polland with jet fighter and bomder and nuked Warsword with than 20 kton bomb.

Yes, you are capable of reaching semi-modern technologies in the game. It's a bit difficult to do though, and usually requires specializing in a field while mising out in others, unless you have a huge industrial base.

	12-03-2003 00:07									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by yin26 By the way, in contrast to the broken AI in MOO3, you *will* get pounded in EU2 if you don't play in a smart manner...

Yes, the EU AI is quite impressive. I can't tell you how annoying it is to play the Ottoman Empire, while trying to capture all those Venetian islands with all their fleets running around. Every now and then they'll land 10,000 or so troops in Anatolia, which is always a pain to deal with too...

	12-03-2003 06:25									#21
	Got spare money?

The orginate AI in MOO3 was so hard to beat that gametest
complain that it was inpossible to beat the AI on the easy setting that two week before the release of the game they tone down the AI and didnot have enought time to test this new tone down AI , by change one number can change than few hundred's value in the computer games when it run.

	17-03-2003 22:42									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by St Leo If it's resource management you are after, then you can't go wrong with archaelogically excavating a copy of Imperialism II somewhere.

Am I the only one who honestly like Imperialism 1 more than it's sequel?


Oh and does anyone know anything at all about they are going to finnish EU2 for mac?

	28-03-2003 16:51									#23
	Support Apolyton

It really depends what you want judging from your description HoI is THE game. I love it and in my opinion it's even better than EU. Well perhaps because I'm a WWII buff but well I like the timeframe and above all: I like Panzer on the road, the all mighty steel fleet at sea and the Luftwaffe in the air striking with their Dive Bomber Wow what a game. And furthermore never forget the diplo-aspect. Nobody can win the game alone and you would be well advised to search for allies in peace time. At war it might be too late.