15-02-2003 18:46									#1
	Is this how we end affirmative action? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

While discussing affirmative action the other day with some students, I realized that there are no tests for race or ethnicity. So if the WASP's out there want in on the benefits of affirmative action all they have to do is check the box on the applications. If enough people do this, affirmative action will cease to function.

	15-02-2003 19:45									#2
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How about we provide quality public education to all people instead of just rich suburban communities? I don't see why the government shouldn't spend the same amount of money per student across the entire country. That alone, would make affirmative action obsolete while equalizing opprotunity for everyone. There's a reason affirmative action exists. Because minorities are discriminated against. But not directly at the job interview process. From birth until their first day of school when poor inner-city schools don't provide the same quality education as rich, predominantly white, suburban schools.

There's nothing worse than a stupid white person complaining about discrimination.

	15-02-2003 19:47									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Sava There's nothing worse than a stupid white person complaining about discrimination.

But you just were.

	15-02-2003 19:51									#4
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aw you little b4stard boris..

	15-02-2003 20:40									#5
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I was hoping for adult comment.

	15-02-2003 20:53									#6
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If enough people/ everyone did it then they'd just decide using their eyes, and ruin it for minorities that look white.

	15-02-2003 21:00									#7
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I don't think racists would claim to be other than white.

	15-02-2003 21:07									#8
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People other than racists would claim to be the minorities, and then the employers would start determining peoples' races based solely on outward appearance.

	15-02-2003 21:09									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sava How about we provide quality public education to all people instead of just rich suburban communities? I don't see why the government shouldn't spend the same amount of money per student across the entire country.

Spending the same amount per student? That leads to urban schools awash in money that accomplish nothing, and rural schools that can't afford to pay their teachers. I know about the second possibility: the school district I live in had to close three schools and will be closing a fourth this summer because they can't afford to keep them open. As for the urban schools, they will accomplish nothing until the inner-city violence and such ends, because children can't learn when they are looking over their shoulders, no matter how much money their school has.

	15-02-2003 21:09									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie If enough people/ everyone did it then they'd just decide using their eyes, and ruin it for minorities that look white.

The point is that they (the government, university etc) cant decide. Only the person making the application can decide their race/ethnicity. AFAIK they cant even comment on your choice and if they did they would open themselves up to (at least) a civil lawsuit. I certainly cant comment or question when looking at that kind of information about the patients in a research setting.

	15-02-2003 21:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie People other than racists would claim to be the minorities, and then the employers would start determining peoples' races based solely on outward appearance.

I'll agree with your first statement, but I'm not sure what the second statement means.

	15-02-2003 21:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by chairmanmeow Spending the same amount per student? That leads to urban schools awash in money that accomplish nothing, and rural schools that can't afford to pay their teachers. I know about the second possibility: the school district I live in had to close three schools and will be closing a fourth this summer because they can't afford to keep them open. As for the urban schools, they will accomplish nothing until the inner-city violence and such ends, because children can't learn when they are looking over their shoulders, no matter how much money their school has.

So the money could be spent increasing safety.

	15-02-2003 21:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I was hoping for adult comment.

Well, when you create a thread effectively whining about how unfair affirmative action is and how unfairly discriminated "WASP's" can defeat the system; I think it's wrong to expect everyone to conform and say, "Yeah man, those stupid minorities and their stupid programs."

	15-02-2003 21:27									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Well, when you create a thread effectively whining about how unfair affirmative action is and how unfairly discriminated "WASP's" can defeat the system; I think it's wrong to expect everyone to conform and say, "Yeah man, those stupid minorities and their stupid programs."

Obviously you have problems reading. Head on back to your sandbox junior.

	15-02-2003 21:29									#15
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I better before you and your klan comes for me...

	15-02-2003 22:09									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH The point is that they (the government, university etc) cant decide.

They can't, but they still will. Obviously not outloud though.

	15-02-2003 22:33									#17
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How about people like me that are white and grew up in the inner city does affermative action help us. 3/4 of the guys at the residence I work at are white and grew up in poor familys, how does affermative action help to equalize opportunity for them. I'm sure they feel so privliged in life with big time advantages.

Maybe we need affermative action based on the income of the family you grew up in. You could fill out a form and check off how rich your parents were then they decide if you get the job.

	15-02-2003 22:43									#18
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quote: Originally posted by SirTweek How about people like me that are white and grew up in the inner city does affermative action help us. 3/4 of the guys at the residence I work at are white and grew up in poor familys, how does affermative action help to equalize opportunity for them. I'm sure they feel so privliged in life with big time advantages.

I agree totally. Race is not a good indication of whether a person has had many opportunities in life. Yes, inner-city blacks are at a disadvantage. But so are inner-city whites, who often have similar problems as the urban blacks. Many people would assume that because I'm white, I have many more oppotunities than any black person. That's not necessarily true. For example, I live in a poor rural area, and my opportunities are less than someone who lives in, for example, Montgomery County, where the majority of the people are rich, and have many more opportunities.

	15-02-2003 22:57									#19
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good idea. In the future I will check the box.

I am part native american, it is fine time I start taking advantage of that.

	15-02-2003 23:05									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie They can't, but they still will. Obviously not outloud though.

How will they do that? Ask for a picture? Set up skin colour standards. Ask you to prove your ancestry? The simple truth is that there is no valid test therefore any screening process would undercut affirmative action. By governmental standards you are black or hispanic if you say you are.

	15-02-2003 23:10									#21
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I'm pretty sure they wouldn't need to ask for a picture, as there will usually be some sort of visual contact at the stage of recruitment known as an "interview". The point I'm making is that the recruiters would ignore the check-boxes for race and make assumptions based solely on skin-colour; it would ruin AA as you said, but not in a good way.

	15-02-2003 23:11									#22
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Everyone should just f*ck each other until we all become the same.

	16-02-2003 01:07									#23
	Re: Is this how we end affirmative action? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH While discussing affirmative action the other day with some students, I realized that there are no tests for race or ethnicity. So if the WASP's out there want in on the benefits of affirmative action all they have to do is check the box on the applications. If enough people do this, affirmative action will cease to function.

If you lie on your application you can get kicked out of college.

	16-02-2003 02:18									#24
	Re: Re: Is this how we end affirmative action? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If you lie on your application you can get kicked out of college.

You're missing the point. Both race and ethnicity are "states of mind". There are no legal rules or physical tests that can be done to say whether you're one race or ethnicity. You may be lying, but theres virtually no way to prove it and it may be illegal for them to even question you about it.

	16-02-2003 07:03									#25
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quote: Originally posted by SirTweek How about people like me that are white and grew up in the inner city does affermative action help us. 3/4 of the guys at the residence I work at are white and grew up in poor familys, how does affermative action help to equalize opportunity for them. I'm sure they feel so privliged in life with big time advantages. Maybe we need affermative action based on the income of the family you grew up in. You could fill out a form and check off how rich your parents were then they decide if you get the job.

The reason AA is in the news right now is because of the University of Michigan lawsuit, to be argued at the Supreme Court.

Under the U-M affirmative action policy, everyone who is of low economic status, and everyone who goes to a minority-majority high school, regardless of their individual race, gets the exact same amount of assistance as any African, Hispanic, or First Nations kid.

Educate yourselves.

	16-02-2003 07:14									#26
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Right Guynemer. So the rich black kid from the suburbs who attends an elite private school gets an advantage over lower middle class white people.

"You're missing the point. Both race and ethnicity are "states of mind". There are no legal rules or physical tests that can be done to say whether you're one race or ethnicity. You may be lying, but theres virtually no way to prove it and it may be illegal for them to even question you about it."

Yes, but getting kicked out of school is a big deal. Are you willing to risk your future on the bet that a court won't rule if you are black or not?

	16-02-2003 07:45									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Right Guynemer. So the rich black kid from the suburbs who attends an elite private school gets an advantage over lower middle class white people.

1) This lower middle class white kid had no problem in the slightest getting into U-M undergrad or U-M med school.

2) You really think that "the rich black kid from the suburbs who attends an elite private school" isn't forced to put up with racist bullshit on a weekly basis? (conservative estimate)

	16-02-2003 15:16									#28
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Maybe we could create a test where people could score "opression points". See I'm white (0 points), male (0 points), have a learning disability (1 point), come from a single parent family (1 point), ect... Hey we could even include points for sexual orientation and all kinds of things. Maybe you could lose points for having 'privliged' traits. This could be included on job applications, applications for schools and other things deemed necessary by the government. Whoever gets the most opression points wins!

	16-02-2003 16:01									#29
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Nice Sava, opposing affirmative action now equals racism. Seems the people most opposed to a color blind society are Nazi skinheads, the KKK, and liberals.

	16-02-2003 16:21									#30
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I have often been tempted to write 'celt' on these forms...