17-02-2003 04:18									#31
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I'm very interested on how the war has been progressing, there are reports of Lux razing one of it's own cities to keep it from falling into ND's hands. If so, this would most likely be the city in the screenshot with ND's 4 swords+1 spear stack right next to it. At least 1 of those swords was vet, no way to keep it if you don't have enough spears, a tactical retreat might be best (but very painful).

Trip didn't respond to that, so there has to be some value of truth to it, or he is still holding some Ace behind his sleeve and shuts up to not let anything leak.

DeepO

	17-02-2003 07:13									#32
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay As for the "what if a leader doesn't appear?" question, a palace jump would be possible if we run into that scenario.

If Hurricane does get on to producing that Wonder, our overseas Palace jump may miss the mark and end up right next door. Even if Hurricane does not become "real big", we're going to have to keep the early Culture way down (no Temples, etc.). That's quite a sacrifice, unless there's something I'm missing re: Palace jumps.


Dominae

	17-02-2003 07:30									#33
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I won't claim to be a palace jump expert (it's a tactic I essentially never use), but I was thinking it was just a matter of non-foreign population size. We'd probably be wise to check out threads on palace jumps before we base any plans on one, though. In any case, it's starting to look like the current war on the main continent won't be anywhere near long enough and costly enough to give us a good opening for an invasion there.

Nathan

	17-02-2003 07:37									#34
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From personal experience, Palace-jumping is definitely affected by Culture.


Dominae

	17-02-2003 17:14									#35
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Yes, the few times I did it, I got into a bit of a problem as well. But I'm sure that if we want it, the members of our team have enough combined experience to pull it off, I consider it less of a problem too.

DeepO

	17-02-2003 17:16									#36
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quote: We call Lux now. We tell them that we sympathise with their discontent with ND and GoW (yeah right...),

What if we turn it around, we aggrivate Lux, while at the same time vox tries to get on Lux's good site, trying to get their money/maps/workers... etc.( saying they will use it to hurt us).*

* in case Lux is on the brink of extermination

	17-02-2003 17:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I won't claim to be a palace jump expert (it's a tactic I essentially never use), but I was thinking it was just a matter of non-foreign population size. We'd probably be wise to check out threads on palace jumps before we base any plans on one, though. In any case, it's starting to look like the current war on the main continent won't be anywhere near long enough and costly enough to give us a good opening for an invasion there. Nathan

In my times playing on huge maps, I did palace jumps very often. Definitely a palace jump is affected by wonders, or maybe the culture they produce. I twice had a palace jump ending in a starved to size 3 city with the Great Library, instead of the size 6 city I had prepared.

	17-02-2003 17:54									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph In my times playing on huge maps, I did palace jumps very often. Definitely a palace jump is affected by wonders, or maybe the culture they produce. I twice had a palace jump ending in a starved to size 3 city with the Great Library, instead of the size 6 city I had prepared.

The size 6 was all your own people? (Just making sure, because foreigners don't count toward size in the palace jump calculations.)

	17-02-2003 18:10									#39
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay The size 6 was all your own people? (Just making sure, because foreigners don't count toward size in the palace jump calculations.)

Yes, my "huge map" time I played with undercrowded maps and performed the "settler flood". That means a very weak military and I avoided wars like the plague. Mostly, the city with the wonder was even adjacent to my capital, for obvious reasons. And I never add foreign workers to my cities.

	17-02-2003 18:13									#40
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I was thinking more along the lines that you might have tried to do a palace jump to a captured city, but I guess if you avoided wars like the plague, capturing cities probably wasn't a problem. (Then again, there's always culture flips.)

	17-02-2003 18:18									#41
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My opinion on the most likely palace jump target is the city with the most "power", in the order they are listed in the F11 screen. There are often size 3 cities with wonders higher than size 6 or even larger cities without. Also, the total output (food, shields, gold) seems to matter. I think there is a formula, which makes an amalgam of all these indicators (size, wonders, culture, output) and determines the "most powerful" city, which becomes the new capital.

	17-02-2003 18:24									#42
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I was thinking more along the lines that you might have tried to do a palace jump to a captured city, but I guess if you avoided wars like the plague, capturing cities probably wasn't a problem. (Then again, there's always culture flips.)

Mostly my strategy was, to build an FP in a city near my old capital, and to time the jump well after the FP is built. That was a PITA in the time, when a city still couldn't be disbanded and I had to time a settler without food surplus.

Mostly I pumped the target city up with the remaining settlers of the "settler flood", who clashed with my neighbors and didn't find a city site anymore. If I could (in terms of water, food and happiness), I pumped it up even beyond size 6. The citizens were my own, for certain.

After the 2 incidents with the GL, I didn't build early wonders in settler flood games anymore.

	17-02-2003 20:23									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Very creative idea, but a no go for me.

Thanks, and I understand why you won't accept it. It's just too unethical.
I wish there was some way we could even up this war, or at least salvage some of Lux's assets. I would have supported proposing to RP that we both pay GoW to turn around against ND, but that would hurt our fair, respectful and peaceful reputation.

	17-02-2003 20:30									#44
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I've been thinking on buying GoW's support against RP, while we keep a friendly relation with RP. I fear that they are going to profit too much from the war, they already are quite strong, and can relatively only grow. In 30 or so turns, we might want to do something about that

DeepO

	19-02-2003 21:44									#45
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Wow, I'm away for a weekend and all hell breaks loose in the world!

Sounds to me like Lux's days are numbered. China is the ultimate early war civ, at least in terms of their civ traits. They are perfectly geared toward generating a powerful war machine quickly. Even without the 2-on-1 nature of the war, Lux would probably be hard pressed to hold of GoW.

-Arrian

	19-02-2003 22:05									#46
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Arrian, it seems like ND is going to be the biggest problem for Lux... GF has commented somewhere that by the time they can reach Lux, it will be gone

DeepO

	19-02-2003 23:02									#47
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Plus, judging by the power graph, ND is much more powerful than GoW is. According to the early F11 screens and city ratings thereof, I guesstimate that GoW has gotten an average-to-bad starting location.

Last edited by Shiber on 19-02-2003 at 23:15

	19-02-2003 23:04									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It sounds like ND was closer to Lux, and Lux is weak (bad terrain?). So yeah, ND will most likely take care of them. I'm just saying that even a straight GoW v. Lux fight would be advantage: GoW.

Anyway, the rich are gonna get richer over there on the mainland. That concerns me. If this was a more even fight, I'd be estatic - because we could sit back and build (though so would Lego) while the big dogs were slaughtering each other. But it doesn't sound remotely even. Therefore, it is likely that ND will make big gains with relatively little investment. Bad for us.

-Arrian

	19-02-2003 23:13									#49
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Arrian, it's not ND who I'm worried about, the best they can do is get even with us (at least expansion wise). And the investment is not that great, but not nothing either (depending on how Lux is going to react).

I firmly believe it's RP we need to watch out for, as they seem to have had a great starting pos, and are already quite strong. If they don't get involved in some territorial fights soon, they will become like a killer AI... juicy to take on, as you know you're challenged

DeepO

	19-02-2003 23:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Anyway, the rich are gonna get richer over there on the mainland. That concerns me. If this was a more even fight, I'd be estatic - because we could sit back and build (though so would Lego) while the big dogs were slaughtering each other.

I agree. The best scenario from our point of view would be all four civs on the mainland stuck in a trench war that just wastes their resources and gets them nowhere.

quote: Originally posted by DeepO I firmly believe it's RP we need to watch out for, as they seem to have had a great starting pos, and are already quite strong.

I agree. They've also got some good tacticians there, and they put a lot of effort into analyzing the score and other public-domain stats, so they have good intelligence. We need to change our focus to RP.
The more I read (especially on the ISDG forum, where some people seem to like to share information that is often of use to us almost freely), the more I get the impression that another war will break out about a month after Lux is finished. Let's hope that someone would rein RP.

	19-02-2003 23:58									#51
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Yeah, strange that so much info gets shared at the IDG, while on the general PTW Demo forum there is so few. We have to watch out to not say too much ourselves...

DeepO

	20-02-2003 00:13									#52
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I agree. Our motto should be: "the enemy is listening".
Just so noone forgets.
Any tips that we have and are relevant, we should share. However, there's no need to reveal sensitive information, or imply that we use certain strategies (e.g. when discussing build patterns, don't say things like "use this pattern, it worked great for GS", that's a little too obvious ).

	20-02-2003 06:45									#53
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Believe me, I can't tell you how much I regret starting the new city placement thread in Strategy (Dominae notwithstanding ).

Yes, I have been very conscious of what to say and not say in the IDG forum.

For instance, I did NOT say that our current situation with Vox is ideal for Ralphing, in that a 2 civ mid-sized continent is ideal.

	20-02-2003 07:21									#54
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Ralphing? Good name!

	20-02-2003 07:46									#55
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nye, please check out the thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=77451

Input desired.

And yes, it looks like "Ralphing" is gonna be a keeper.

Poor SR.