16-02-2003 01:02									#1
	A bold, diplomatical idea? Full PM-box? Change here!

I know some members of the tactical scholia are going to curse me for even raising the idea, but what about giving out loans to other civs? RP has been quite pressing when it comes to the proposed deals, I guess they don't feel very secure either, and would want some cash in their coffers for emergencies. Our improvements are going to cost us 2 gpt, very soon 3 gpt, so what about proposing a loan to RP, where they pay us 3 gpt for 20 turns for 40 gold?

Other teams are also possible, maybe we can secretly sponsor Lux with a loan, or maybe ND... GoW can choke for all I care

Disadvantages to us are clear, of course, for the next 20 turns we would be more vulnerable... but if we keep Vox as friends for the next 20 turns, the profits should not only include more cash, but also a better relation with at least one team

DeepO

[Edited to include stuff.]

	16-02-2003 01:06									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No, I love the idea... as long as it is in concert with our larger strategy. For instance, how will that affect the timing and availability of funds for upgrades?

Also, let's make sure we only deal with the creditworthy (as in surviving) teams.

	16-02-2003 01:07									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Someone would have to be desperate to pay interest. Someone who is desperate is very likely to find themselves where they have no choice but to break deals. Such desperation loans would not be a wise investment.

Now, if they have tech we could buy, it would be better to buy from the weaker to help balance them against the stronger.

	16-02-2003 01:14									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Very good catch on that one, NYE... desperate people are hardly the most trustworthy.

Maybe the profits don't need to be high, I would settle for 50, maybe 55 gold for 3 gpt. The possibilities to improve relations, and appear to others as a friendly uncle Tom they can ask help from is more important to me.

Theseus: do you think it's possible that Lux or ND gets eradicated in the next 20 turns? I'm not sure... RP shouldn't be a problem anyway.

DeepO

	16-02-2003 01:17									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I wouldn't mind offering RP a loan, but I'd suggest more like 50 gold for 3 gpt. Asking for a 50% interest rate could too easily be viewed as insulting. Also note that the incoming gpt would more than pay for current expenses, and we'd probably get the original 50 repaid by the time our research would be slowed down any.

If GoW would be interested in a loan, we might make it more like 45 gold for 3 gpt, since they're actively involved in the fighting. And I'd rather not offer loans to Lux or ND at all, since there is an excellent chance that one or the other of them will not survive or will get desperate enough to "declare war" on us just to relieve itself of the financial burden. (Even assuming we had contact in order to make the offer.)

Edit: Crossposted with DeepO

Nathan

	16-02-2003 01:26									#6
	Suffering from ads?

Why offer a loan which has not been asked for?

Togas is a shrewd diplomat. He knows that we will get all that he offered eventually. He is most likely trying to see if his team can benefit from our acquisitions rather than some other. He is trained and experienced in investigating every trade opportunity every turn. That is the way it is/was done in the C3DG where he was foreign minister for 3 terms.

I seriously doubt that they are desperate for cash.

	16-02-2003 01:34									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well... maybe only the proposal of it would be a good idea, even if we anticipate they'll decline the offer. It still is a sign to them that we're willing to trade with them, at decent terms, also in times of tension.

I agree that Togas knows that he has be swift, as he also knows that Vox has both techs (or will acquire them soon), and most likely nearly all contacts as well. Otherwise he wouldn't have pushed the subject while the safe was in his hands: maybe he underestimated how much Vox would have gained in knowledge the past turn. But still, the outbreak of war right next to your borders would scare any foreign minister enough to start thinking of increasing his treasury, even if they're not yet desperate.

DeepO

	16-02-2003 06:10									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Good idea Deep0. And if we build the Colossus, we will have plenty of money to lend, and plenty of money incase one or two civs default on their debt. In which case we can include in the clause of the treaty some workers, or techs or something. This of course wont work with civs on their last gasp, but it will with those who just happen to run out of money at the time.

	16-02-2003 16:36									#9
	Support Apolyton

Buying a worker might be possible....

	16-02-2003 17:14									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Now that's an idea! If they would be willing to sell us a slave for 50 gold or so, I'd go for it. Spain has more growth then other countries, so maybe they don't mind that much...

DeepO

	17-02-2003 01:37									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We could grow rich from a large scale war on the continent which is already filled up. We loan money to both sides, which they use to upgrade immediatly *they cannot afford to wait 3 turns to accumulate money for an upgrade), and then we recieve per turn, which will sap their research, and other things. Then they need to borrow more, etc. We can make a killing. Chances are, the first couple of wars will not end in a total annihilation of either side

Then we loan money to the nations at the end of the war to help them build up. And make more.

	17-02-2003 03:52									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Actually- if ND and GoW both turn on Lux (which seems to be the case), odds are they're done for, if they insist on fighting when it seems ND and GoW aren't exactly falling behind in score- which an indication to your power- while Lux actually is falling behind in that regard. It's days are short, if there is no deception going on and its still ND and GoW Vs. Lux.

	17-02-2003 04:05									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

dp

Last edited by zeit on 17-02-2003 at 04:14