16-02-2003 06:42									#1
	Discussion: the Maniac Reforms Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

While posting the new constitution thread, I encountered a lot of spelling errors anachronisms. Parts of the constitution we do in a completely other way in practice. Therefore I'd like to suggest an update for several issues, and also propose some new ones. My intention is to poll them in a multichoice poll issue per issue. But first: discuss!

Proposal 1:

Eliminate the difference between the rights and the duties of an official. The choice to list their duties under one of these two categories seems arbitrary to me. An official's rights are his duties, and vice versa.

Proposal 2:

Add to the Director of Science paragraph under duties (or whatever category):

quote: *Deciding what to do with alien artifacts

Proposal 3:

Change:

quote: *Requesting buildings with the Director of buildings productions *Requesting buildings and military units with the Director of buildings productions.

in the DS and DPO paragraph into:

quote: *Requesting base facilities to the DIA and governors *Requesting base facilities and military units to the DIA and governors

Proposal 4:

Add to the the AT paragraph:

quote: *Acting as guardian of the constitution. In the absence of justices informing the directors if they're not following the constitution such as not polling major decisions or posting unconstitutional polls

I would add that because the justices haven't been very active besides on the matter of impeachments, and most of the time there isn't enough time before a turnchat to hold a court hearing if an order isn't legal.

Proposal 5:

A stronger version of proposal 4:

quote: *Acting as guardian of the constitution. In the absence of justices informing the directors if they're not following the constitution such as not polling major decisions or posting unconstitutional polls. *Can veto any order if it is illegal or too major so it had to be polled beforehand.

Proposal 6:

Change:

quote: Directors must poll all major decisions, such as deciding what science advance to pursue, what to build in a city, or where to place the workers in a particular city. However, they can act on minor decisions without polling the people, such as what to do in the event of a mindworm attack.

into:

quote: Directors and governors must poll all major decisions, such as deciding what science advance to pursue, whether to construct boreholes, or whether to construct a secret project. However, they can act on minor decisions without polling the people, such as what to do in the event of a mindworm attack.

That should solve the "worker placements need to be polled" discussion.

Proposal 7:

Delete:

quote: Base Names: The alpha talent or the commissioner will pick 5 names from the name thread and will put them in a poll where a name for a new city can be chosen. This poll has to be open for at least 2 days. The name with the most votes will be chosen for the base and will be scraped from the list. The same counts for landmarks. If someone wants to name a place without a landmark a poll has started about giving it a name or not. This poll will also have minimum of 2 days.

out of Article II and insert the following under DIA duties:

quote: *Polling basenames and landmarks

That should sette the discussion about the DIA making unconstitutional base name polls.

Proposal 8a and 8b:

Because our map will soon be fully explored by a sky hydroponics lab, the DEI will lose half of its current job description. Therefore I would propose to merge DEI with DFA, and let the Director of Foreign Affairs handle covert operations as well.
Delete:

quote: Director of Exploration and Intelligence: Has the right of: *Starting polls to ask the people what there wishes are in his area *Ordering the commissioner to move any exploration units and covert ops units *Asking the director of Peacekeeping Operations for exploration units *Advising any other part of the government Has the duties of: *Starting polls to ask the people what their wishes are in his area *Listening to the will of the people in his area *Consulting the director of Foreign Affairs during covert ops actions *Giving back control of exploration units to the director of Peacekeeping Operations when the situation asks for it *Serving his faction the best he can The Director Exploration and Intelligence is command of exploration units and covert ops units.

and add under DFA: (proposal 8a)

quote: *Ordering the commissioner to move any covert ops units

or, add under DPO: (proposal 8b)

quote: *Ordering the commissioner to move any covert ops units

	16-02-2003 06:49									#2
	Re: Discussion: the Maniac Reforms Got spare money?

quote: Proposal 1: Eliminate the difference between the rights and the duties of an official. The choice to list their duties under one of these two categories seems arbitrary to me. An official's rights are his duties, and vice versa.

I tend to think of "rights" as the things an official *may* do, whereas "duties" are things an official *must* do. You have a point, though.

quote: Proposal 6: (snip) That should solve the "worker placements need to be polled" discussion.

quote: Proposal 8: Because our map will soon be fully explored by a sky hydroponics lab, the DEI will lose half of its current job description. Therefore I would propose to merge DEI with DFA, and let the Director of Foreign Affairs handle covert operations as well.

Hmm, why not merge the DEI and the DPO instead, and let the DFA handle the more diplomatic stuff while the DPO handles all military and paramilitary unit movement and such?

	16-02-2003 07:03									#3
	Re: Re: Discussion: the Maniac Reforms Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Cedayon I tend to think of "rights" as the things an official *may* do, whereas "duties" are things an official *must* do. You have a point, though.

I should check the difference out better I guess, but sometimes the exact job is mentioned both under rights and duties. It's not a big issue, but I feel the distinction needlessly lengthens the constitution.

quote: Hmm, why not merge the DEI and the DPO instead, and let the DFA handle the more diplomatic stuff while the DPO handles all military and paramilitary unit movement and such?

That is a good idea as well. That would make the issue of pod popping (done by military units or probes?) easier as well. I'll include the option in the proposal.

	16-02-2003 07:15									#4
	Re: Re: Re: Discussion: the Maniac Reforms Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I should check the difference out better I guess, but sometimes the exact job is mentioned both under rights and duties. It's not a big issue, but I feel the distinction needlessly lengthens the constitution.

I agree that any actual needless duplication of information should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

quote: That is a good idea as well. That would make the issue of pod popping (done by military units or probes?) easier as well. I'll include the option in the proposal.

Thanks I think it would simplify matters by having all non-domestic (ie not a former or supply) units under the authority of the DPO. The increased coordination between our covert operatives and our overt () operatives may be very important as well.

	16-02-2003 07:17									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

hmm these sound good, but this reminds me (and i had been meaning to do this for a while): i think we should merge the Director of Research and Social Engineering positions, seeing as there is little for them to do other than post a poll every so often, and we seem to be lacking people. not that there has every been a lack of people willing to do the DoSE job
* Method stares at archaic.

	16-02-2003 07:25									#6
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Sounds good to me, TKG... the DoScience doesn't really have much to do... the DoSE has slightly more but still not much (although it's certainly been interesting enough for Pan, I'd wager), making it a good merge. The other possibility that comes to mind is merging the DoScience with the DIA, since the responsibilities are (perhaps) more related... probably better to merge it with the DoSE though, if anything.

	16-02-2003 07:28									#7
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And how would you call that directorate, TKG? Personally I agree to unite smaller directorates, but I can't seem to find a name that justifies having these two rather different jobs together. Personally I consider uniting DIA and DoS not so good, as the DIA alreadu has a large job (so I presume at least).

	16-02-2003 07:31									#8
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The naming would be a little awkward, but I think the idea is solid anyway:

Director of Social Engineering and Research

Doesn't sound that bad, does it?

edit- alternatively we could say it's ok for an individual to be a candidate for both DoSE and DoR, allowing the Directorships to remain nominally seperate but functionally combined.


And yea, nevermind my DIA+DoR suggestion, it sucks


edit- why is it that I can post a reply and get a near-instant response, but when I try to edit that same reply a few seconds later it takes for-frikin-ever and gets lost half the time?

	16-02-2003 07:32									#9
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Maniac the DIA alreadu has a large job (so I presume at least).

oh yes. in the december term, i think i made 19 polls

as for a name...heh, i was thinking someone else would come up with that

	18-02-2003 01:30									#10
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So, does anyone have any comments, or should I just poll it?

I'm rather surprised no one objects to giving the Alpha Talent more power.

	18-02-2003 01:49									#11
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I think we're just happy to actually have an AT that posts regularly

I (and most of us, apparently) don't mind giving power to people who'll use it for the good of our faction... it's better than letting decisions go unmade, and oppurtunities go untaken...

If someone were to abuse any of their power, however... Then we have Lemmy arrange a public flogging

edit- and yea, just poll the sucker... include the "Merge the DoSE and DoR" option too, (or the option to let one person run for and/or hold both offices at once) if you wouldn't mind...

	18-02-2003 12:01									#12
	Remove this text

Just poll it.