16-02-2003 13:09									#1
	Consul Election Results (and issues) Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I prepared results for this election from the votes I had received at 11pm EST and sent a copy of my results to Nimitz, but I did not meet with him on Saturday night. I idled for quite some time online without any contact from him. It is now 3am EST, 4 hours later, and I am still without verified results.

Arnelos reported to me that some individuals sent their votes only to me, and not to Nimitz as well, but I have not confirmed this.

The election results, as I have them, are very close. We have three options as I see it.

1) Accept the results that I have published below to be the official results of the election. Begin elections for our ministers immediately.
2) Wait for Nimitz to compare his results to the results below and if he agrees with my results, we then have an official conclusion. If not, he needs to chat with me online so that we can discover where our results are different and come forward with a unanimous conclusion. Wait until all of this is done.
3) Accept a PART of this election (one of the 4 overwhelmingly won) and allow Nimitz and I to confer as to the other 2 Consul spots.

Unfortunately, we don't have time to have a poll about this so we just need to all voice our opinions in this thread and if enough of us agree, take that solution. I really need to hear from Nimitz and I am somewhat annoyed that I did not hear from him at all tonight. We have no formal rules yet, so we have to come to an informal consensus.

Personally, I feel these results are accurate and reliable and I am more than happy to stand by them if there is enough support.


Results of the votes that I have received:

Total Votes Cast: 23
Using a system proposed by Arnelos that allows one to give a part of his vote to a 2nd candidate if his 1st candidate gets more than enough votes (Arnelos can explain in more detail) we have the following results:

Total number of votes needed to win one of the 3 seats: 6.75 (4 seats/23 votes + 1)

First Choice Votes Received:
Vondrack = 11
Ninot = 5
Trip = 5
NotYouEither = 2

As Vondrack has 4.25 more votes than needed, all those who voted Vondrack get to give a portion of their vote to their #2 candidate...

4.25/11 of a vote go to --

Second Choice Votes on those who voted Vondrack:
NotYouEither = 9
Ninot = 2

NotYouEither gets an extra 4.25/11 * 9 votes.
Ninot gets an extra 4.25/11 * 2 votes.

New Results after adding Second Choice Votes:
Ninot = 5.79
NotYouEither = 5.48
Trip = 5

As no candidate has more votes than necessary (6.75 necessary) to be given to another candidate, we stop the process here. At this point, we take the top two candidates, which would mean that Ninot and NotYouEither barely slip in as the 2nd & 3rd Consuls.

As the margin is so slim it might be proper to revote for the final two spots, however, this system has taken into consideration people's 2nd choices (3rd choice is rarely used, and only when more than 1 candidate has been confirmed) so it does seem illogical to ask us to vote again, however, I would understand any concerns you might have because Nimitz was not available to verify my results with his own independent results.

As a humorous sidenote, there was one 3rd choice vote for MrMitchell. Perhaps his last minute candidacy will become more involved if a future election is held.

Please discuss and, hopefully, come to a consensus on how we should proceed. I should like to point out, however, that Vondrack got almost half of the 1st ballot votes and his name appeared on 19 of the 23 ballots received.

--Togas

(edit: typos)

Last edited by Togas on 16-02-2003 at 13:16

	16-02-2003 13:29									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As I suggested to Togas in chat before he posted this, my opinion is that Vondrack did so OVERWHELMINGLY well in the election that he clearly should have a mandate to handle our initial save, even if the nearly tied vote between the other 3 candidates means we wait for Nimitz to confirm Togas' results.

That said, if people feel that it's easier to simply declare Togas' results as correct (they are valid for the 23 people who submitted ballots to Togas), then those 23 votes will be considered the official election and Vondrack, Ninot, and notyoueither will be the victors.

I'm happy with either of those scenarios, but I think we need to AT LEAST recognize that Vondrack won such an overwhelming level of support that it's clear if the game starts LATER TODAY that Vondrack has the mandate to represent Apolyton at least until we get our ministers in place and the other Consuls in place.

	16-02-2003 13:30									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Additional stats just in case anyone was interested:

Total balots = 23 (one ballot had only a 1st choice, no 2nd or 3rd)

Second Choice Votes for each Candidate:
NotYouEither = 14
Vondrack = 5
Ninot = 3
Trip = 0

Third Choice Votes for each Candidate:
Ninot = 10
NotYouEither = 4
Trip = 4
Vondrack = 3
MrMitchell = 1

--Togas

	16-02-2003 13:54									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

That was a complicated procedure
Why didn't you just simply give 3 points for 1st choices, 2 points for 2nd choices, 1 point for 3rd choices; like in the civ voting procedure. The 3 candidates with the most points would have become consuls.

	16-02-2003 14:16									#5
	Suffering from ads?

I agree Vondrack has a mandate to handle the save.

	16-02-2003 14:50									#6
	first turn schedule proposal Get a bigger avatar today!

Wow! I hoped I would become one of the three, but this is definitely unexpected. Even if all my fellow Legos threw their undying support behind me, 'cause they know and love me , there would be still be a lot of votes from others!

Thank you, everybody!

I will do my best to keep you happy about voting for me.

As for the first turn... as I have indicated, I consider myself a pretty good, but hardly a top-class player. If there is a general consensus that I should play the first turn even if we are not able to confirm the other two consuls 100% by that time, I would do it the following way (irrespective of how "obvious" I or anyone else might consider the starting location to be):

1) As soon after receiving the save from the previous team as possible, I would post a screenshot of our starting location in the IS-DG forum, allowing everybody to comment there.

2) I would open a password protected chatroom created exclusively for this purpose, posting the password here in the IS-DG forum.

3) I would schedule the "let's make our final decision" chat to start at a time acceptable for both Europeans and people over the Big Pool (like 6pm-9pm GMT?). Hopefully, we will have 24 hours to play our first turn and I would not be afraid to use them this time, even if I'd prefer playing our future turns with as little delay as possible. The first turn is important and I want everybody to have a say. I would notify the next team about the time we would be planning to pass the save on to them.

4) I would be listening in the chatroom all the time, even if not actively participating in the discussion, later reading and sorting through the opinions.

5) Shortly before the opening of the final turnchat, I would post a summary in the forum thread, summing up all the proposed plans. Hopefully, we would then be able to quickly find out in the chat, which one has the most support (everybody refraining from further arguments, just expressing their support to one of the proposals).

I would appreciate if all other Consult candidates join us, too, either in the forum discussion or the chatroom, to prevent any later hard feelings.

I hope this will be ok with other teams.

P.S.: BetaHound, be so kind and give the other teams (or the team that will play before us) my email address. It is vondrack@jimaz.cz. Also, am I correct that we will be allowed to use as long as 24 hours to play our first turn?

	16-02-2003 14:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

btw, Congratulations VonD.

I thought you would do well after seeing your planning abilities. I am sure you will do well no matter which other 2 of us join you.

	16-02-2003 15:00									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes, if game situations arise for some reason before this is done, Vondrack seems to have the go ahead. The other two spots could be left open for further debate and a second poll (a select two of the three (or 4 for Mr.Mitchell)).

	16-02-2003 15:23									#9
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Why didn't you just simply give 3 points for 1st choices, 2 points for 2nd choices, 1 point for 3rd choices; like in the civ voting procedure. The 3 candidates with the most points would have become consuls.

Based on this procedure, the results would be:

Vondrack: 46
Notyoueither: 38
Ninot: 31
Trip: 19
MrMitchell: 1

PS Congratulations, Radek

	16-02-2003 15:28									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

As it's clear that I lost, I won't plague Apolytonia with further polls and other nonsense of that sort. Congrats to Vondrack, NYE and Ninot.

	16-02-2003 15:38									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Thank you Trip. You acquit yourself well, as always.

As I have said, it is a pity only three of us can proceed. The three may wish to pay some heed to the counsel of the fourth though.

	16-02-2003 19:31									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Thanks everybody for congratulations.
My congratulations go to nye & Ninot.

And to Trip - this is what true leaders do. I hope you will stay with us, even if as an "ordinary" citizen only. Your experience with... er... certain other teams we are going to face may come in handy.

Do I understand correctly that we have a general consensus on that the three Consuls elected are me, nye, and Ninot? If so, I would like to meet my new colleagues in a chat, discussing various organizational matters.

Re: my ability to handle the first turn - I suppose I would not play it wrong... but there are different playing styles and that of mine does not necessarily need to suit the majority of the team. As I consider the first turn to be important, I would prefer having a team debate over it, even if I thought our move was obvious. It's my understanding that the victory in Civ3MP often comes through decisions that were not that obvious at first. I believe that spending a couple of extra hours over the first turn will be more than recouped in the following turns.

Also, I seriously believe that this is going to be a team effort, with many people contributing, not just a three-man show with others watching. Playing the first turn without consulting others might set us on the wrong track.

So, please, bear with me, if you believe it's going to be a little bit too slow... I assure you that once things get rolling, we will be fast - just have a look at recent Lego turnplay times in the Poly PtWDG game. After a messy start, we are doing fine now (even if largely because of being isolated from others, thus able to plan ahead quite well).

	16-02-2003 20:00									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

WHAT??? i LOST!?!?!

My 100 DLs in 30 minutes technique ALWAYS WORKS, @$%#(#@!!!!

RECOUNT!

	16-02-2003 20:03									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell WHAT??? i LOST!?!?! My 100 DLs in 30 minutes technique ALWAYS WORKS, @$%#(#@!!!! RECOUNT!

Could't have worked this time, as all of those DL's would have to be authorized into the team in those 30 minutes first.

	16-02-2003 22:02									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My congratulations to Vondrack, NotYouEither and Ninot.

I also hope that Trip will remain with us and help with all his valuable experience.

And for MrMitchell... If you continue making campaign next time you could be the elected!

One more thing: With all the big advantage Vondrack has received (using any system) I think he should be elected among the threee consuls as president.

	16-02-2003 23:49									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Congrats, guys.

	17-02-2003 00:10									#17
	Tired of ads?

Nimitz still hasn't come online???

I guess he must have had connection problems.

As for Togas' results, if those are official, then NYE and Ninot win - period.

	17-02-2003 00:12									#18
	Re: Consul Election Results (and issues) Inflate your Upload Space

I hereby transfer all power to Donegeal.


(HEHEHEHE!! I see this nifty little but hasn't been fixed!)

Post deleted!

Last edited by Donegeal on 17-02-2003 at 04:39

	17-02-2003 00:14									#19
	Re: Consul Election Results (and issues) Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Togas Results of the votes that I have received: Total Votes Cast: 23 Total number of votes needed to win one of the 3 seats: 6.75 (4 seats/23 votes + 1)

The mechanics were done correctly , but the quota here is usually 7. The universal practice for STV elections (as least for Australia, Ireland, Malta) is to round up to the nearest whole number. It makes the calculations a little easier, I suppose. The result is not affected, but I have recalculated it anyway.

quote: First Choice Votes Received: Vondrack = 11 Ninot = 5 Trip = 5 NotYouEither = 2 As Vondrack has 4.25 more votes than needed, all those who voted Vondrack get to give a portion of their vote to their #2 candidate... 4.25/11 of a vote go to --

same, but 4 and 4/11 votes instead

quote: Second Choice Votes on those who voted Vondrack: NotYouEither = 9 Ninot = 2 NotYouEither gets an extra 4.25/11 * 9 votes. Ninot gets an extra 4.25/11 * 2 votes. . New Results after adding Second Choice Votes: Ninot = 5.79 NotYouEither = 5.48 Trip = 5

NotYouEither, 3.27, Ninot, .72.

Vondrack 7 ELECTED
Ninot 5 + 0.72 = 5.72
Trip 5 + 0 = 5
NotYouEither 2 + 3.27 = 5.27
"Lost" due to rounding: 0.01.

[If the "lost" makes anyone uncomfortable, then we can always express it as a fraction: Vondrack 7, Ninot 5 8/11, Trip 5, NotYouEither, 5 3/11; though this is not usually done as the fractions get soon very unwieldy.]

Since no one has made the quota, Trip is eliminated since he has the fewest number of votes, but since there are only two candidates remaining with two seats left, they are both declared elected.

Which is what Togas said

Can we do this again some time

	17-02-2003 00:20									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Oh bugger, a double post. Someone delete the first one and transfer its votes among the remaining posts

[That’s meant to be an STV joke.]

	17-02-2003 01:51									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It will be an odd change to be active and not to have a ton of power... err... I mean, responsibility. I could get used to it though... I'll be able to disappear whenever I want to and no one can care.

	17-02-2003 02:08									#22
	Re: first turn schedule proposal Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by vondrack P.S.: BetaHound, be so kind and give the other teams (or the team that will play before us) my email address. It is vondrack@jimaz.cz. Also, am I correct that we will be allowed to use as long as 24 hours to play our first turn?

My congratulations to the new consuls!!

vondrack - I will pass on your e-mail. I will need nye's and Ninot's as well.

	17-02-2003 02:59									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Why exactly did we have closed voting AND PM to two people (I would assume the PM to 2 people was so that one couldn't fake the votes) but still, it was more bother than I could bear... why can't we just do open voting?

	17-02-2003 19:48									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Congratultations Vondrack... and Ninot and NYE.

	18-02-2003 01:24									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Really though, congrats to you all.

I agree that Vondrack is obviously loved so much by the people that he can be elected El Dictatore for Life.

(Uh...I mean....temporary save player. )