16-02-2003 14:29									#1
	Results from 1675 Model Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm not sure who else may be interested, but i mailed a save to the team mailbox that roughly simulates out position in 1675 and allowed me to go forward to the point we had completed our 15 cities.

In my first pass I stuck pretty well to current plan and did not stop to think too long or hard on maximising results. I think we could definitely do better

Here are the ques for my test 1.

I hope this works, although it will push the screen a far bit to the left...

code:
 T  EotS  Hurr  Cycl  Bold  Temp  Ct06  Ct07  Ct08  Ct09  Ct10  Ct11  Ct12  Ct13  Ct14  Ct15
 1        J Wk        J Wk
    Se10  Py67  Gr11  Br11  Wk10
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 28 workers NE of EotS Chop and Irrigate 4 tiles, while 2 cities are set to wonders
--
 2  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Disband 28 workers NE of EotS
 3  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
 4  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
 5  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
 6  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
 7  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
 8  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
 9  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
10  Se10  ----  Se08  ----  Wk10  ----  
11  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  S12
12  ----  ----  ----  Sp07  ----  Br20
13  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
14  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
15  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
16  ----  ----  Se05  ----  ----  ----  ----  
17  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  S18   ----  
18  Se10  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Tm30  ----  
19  ----  ----  ----  ----  Wk10  ----  ----  ----  
20  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
21  ----  ----  Se08  Sp07  ----  ----  ----  S22       
22  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Br40      
23  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
24  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----    
25  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----    
26  Se08  ----  Se08  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----    
27  ----  ----  ----  Sp05  Wk10  ----  ----  ----  S28   S28
28  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Tm30  Ct80  S29   ----  
29  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Sp07  ----  ----  ----  ----  Tm30  ----  
30  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
31  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
32  ----  ----  SE06  WC04  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
33  Se10  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  S34   >>>>  Discovered Republic
34  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Br40  
35  ----  ----  ----  ----  Wk10  Sp04  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
36  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Br10  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----    
37  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  S38   ----  ----  
38  ----  ----  Tm05  WC04  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Ct80  ----  ----  
39  Tm06  ----  ----  ----  ----  Sp04  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  
40  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  S41   ----  
41  ----  ----  ----  ----  Wk10  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Tm15  S42   
42  ----  ----  Br05  WC04  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  Tm30
          Py10

	16-02-2003 14:33									#2
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Ba is Barracks
Ct is Courthouse
Se is Settler
Sp is Spearman
Py is the Pyramids
TM is Temple
WC is War Chariot
Wk is Worker

The number after the abbreviation is the number of turns to complete as of the turn initiated.

/Edit. Oh damn. Ct in the top row is City and its number. Pretty obvious, but I should mention it.

Last edited by notyoueither on 16-02-2003 at 16:14

	16-02-2003 17:27									#3
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Great, NYE! I'm interested in the save, so I'll give it a shot, however I do't have time for these well-documented tests right now.

I take it you didn't add workers to Hurricane in this test, which let you complete both the pyramids and 15 cities in 41 turns. I want to try it myself too, simply because it seems from the outside you never had many workers running around, maybe that makes a difference. But as a shortest path to 15 cities while building a pyarmid, this test is very useful to us.

DeepO

	16-02-2003 22:01									#4
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Great job, nye.

Not very encouraging from a military perspective, though. I count only 6 Spears and 3 WCs on top of what we have now?

How much gold did you have upon completion of Republic? And after completing all towns?

Also, why are EotS and Tempest building so slowly?

	16-02-2003 22:52									#5
	Remove this text

Thanks, NYE. It looks lke your settler production times are way below they should be, implying that you let the governors place the laborers rather than making sure they land where they need to be to keep EotS's and Cyclone's growth rates up, so these results are way off what we can actually expect. But having the scenario available should be really handy for me to run my own tests!

Nathan

	17-02-2003 01:41									#6
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Yes, I did not do anything fancy. I moved labourers around a bit, but it was late and I didn't have the energy to do that too much.

I left Hurricane to its own devices for the Pyramids. It still had 10 turns to go on turn 42. I also left the Iron alone.

Gold is hard to guage Theseus, I set the game with a bunch of extra gold. I will most likely redo the scenario now after having slept on it. I think I can get our exact food/shield situation in all cities. I will mail that in when it is ready a little later today so you can all join in the fun.

	17-02-2003 02:04									#7
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I just completed my own run-through, completing the Pyramids on turn 49 of the scenario thanks to a worker dogpile near the end in spite of having built a spearman first. (EotS switched entirely to workers after building three settlers, one of them chop-assisted, and Cyclone still provided a respectable settling pace.)

Note that this test scenario is not a precise model. I made a few tweaks to try to get it a tad closer (disbanding workers in cities, adding them at times that seemed appropriate, etc.) but I didn’t try to calculate that too precisely either. So this should be considered only a rough estimate of what we can expect. Note that all city locations are drawn from DeepO’s proposal and the border treaty rather than from Aeson’s newer alternative proposal. Aeson’s city numbers, where they correspond (at least roughly) are in parentheses.

Note that I stopped keeping track of units relatively early, and stopped keeping track of the buildings completed by the end.


3 Spearman in Hurricane, start Pyramids.
8 EotS builds Settler.
11 City at #4 (#1) founded.
13 EotS and Cyclone build settlers.
15 EotS builds Worker. City at #6 (#2) founded.
16 Bolderberg builds WC.
17 City at #13 (not on Aeson’s) founded.
18 Settler in Cyclone
19 Settler in EotS
20 City at #5 (#5) founded.
21 Worker in EotS
22 Settler in Cyclone
23 EotS builds Worker
25 EotS builds Worker. #11 (#6) founded.
26 Cyclone builds Settler.
27 Worker in EotS.
29 Temple in #6, Worker in EotS, Northeastern treaty city founded.
30 Cyclone builds settler. #8 (#8) city founded.
31 Republic discovered; switch made. (I have no idea how accurate this is; I simulated a brief delay – maybe two or three turns, but I didn’t keep a good count - waiting for Vox to get Philosophy before giving it to us, and then kept research going full speed.)
32 Barracks in #4, Worker in EotS.
34 Worker in EotS; #10 (#9) founded. Incense connected.
35 Settler in Cyclone.
36 Workers in EotS and Cyclone
38 Workers in EotS and Cyclone
39 Northeastern desert city founded.
40 Workers in EotS and Cyclone
42 Worker in EotS
44 Settler in Cyclone; Worker in EotS. Worker dogpile takes Hurricane from size 7 to size 11.
47 #1 (Not on Aeson’s map) founded.
49 Pyramids complete. Egypt enters a golden age. Great Lighthouse can be completed in 11 turns.

As of turn 49, our military consists of 8 warriors, two spearmen, and 14 WCs. (Things could obviously be mixed and matched differently.)

Nathan

	17-02-2003 10:58									#8
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I ran through 60 turns with the more accurate scenario.

Pyramids were completed on the 43rd turn.

1675 EotS Settler 23. Hurr Pyramids 98. Cycl Granery 11. Bold Barracks 11. Temp Worker 7. CoL in 11.
1 1650
2 1625
3 1600
4 1575
5 1550
6 1525
7 1500 EotS Settler 15. Temp Barracks 40.
8 1475 Cycl Warrior 3.
9 1450 Philosophy in 6. Ct06 Barracks 20.
10 1425 Cycl Warrior 2.
11 1400 Bold Spearman 10.
12 1375 Cycl Settler 5.
13 1350 EotS Worker 5.
14 1325 Republic in 20.
15 1300
16 1275 Cycl Settler 5. Ct07 Temple 15.
17 1250 EotS Warrior 4.
18 1225 Ct08 Worker 10.
19 1200
20 1175 EotS Worker 2. Cycl Settler 5. Bold Spearman 7.
21 1150
22 1125 EotS Worker 2.
23 1100
24 1075 EotS Worker 2. Cycl Settler 5.
25 1050
26 1025 EotS Worker 2. Bold WarChariot 5. Ct09 Temple 30.
27 1000 Ct06 Spearman 5. Ct10 Temple 30.
28 975 EotS Temple 5. Ct08 Temple 30.
29 950 Cycl Settler 5.
30 925 Temp Spearman 7.
31 900 Bold WarChariot 5. Ct07 Courthouse 40.
32 875 EotS Worker 2. MapMaking in 9. Changed to Republic.
33 850 Ct06 Swordsman 6.
34 825 EotS Worker 2. Cycl Settler 4.
35 800 Ct11 Barracks 40.
36 775 EotS Worker 2. Bold WarChariot 4. Temp Spearman 3.
37 750
38 730 EotS Worker 2. Cycl Settler 4. Ct06 Swordsman 5.
39 710 Temp Spearman 3.
40 690 EotS Worker 2. Bold WarChariot 4. Mathematics in 5.
41 670 Ct06 Swordsman 5. Ct12 Courthouse 80. Ct13 Harbor 40.
42 650 EotS Worker 2. Cycl Settler 4. Temp Spearman 3.
43 630 Hurr GreatLighthouse 12. Bold WarChariot 2. Begin GoldenAge.
43 610 EotS Barracks 4. Cycl Temple 3. Ct08 Courthouse 20. Ct09 Courthouse 27. Ct10 Harbor 14. Ct14 Temple 14. Currency in 6.
44 590 Bold Temple 3. Ct06 Temple 3.
45 570 Temp Temple 3.
46 550 EotS Swordsman 2. Cycl Barracks 3.
47 530 Bold Harbor 7. Ct06 Harbor 8. Ct15. temple 15.
48 510 EotS Swordsman 2. Temp Swordsman 2.
49 490 Cycl Marketplace 7. Ct11 temple 6. Construction in 5.
50 470 EotS Marketplace 6. Temp Marketplace 7.
51 450
52 430
53 410 Hurr Temple 2. Ct07 Harbor 10.
54 390 Bold Aqueduct 8. Ct06 Aqueduct 9. Horseback Riding in 4.
55 370 Hurr Colosseum 5. Ct11 Aqueduct 17. Ct14 Barracks 14.
56 350 EotS Colosseum 8. Cycl Aqueduct 7.
57 330 Temp Aqueduct 7.
58 310 Literature in 4. Ct08 Harbor 12. Ct10 Galley 5.
59 290 Ct09 Aqueduct 12.
60 270 Hurr Harbor 3.

8 Spearmen
6 Swordsmen
5 war Chariots