17-02-2003 11:56									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Plus, in most other countries the poor are given reason to have the feeling that the government actually gives a damn about them...

Whereas in Canada the situation is reversed, and the rich people have the feeling that the government doesn't care about them, and in fact is robbing them and throwing the money into the air.

	17-02-2003 11:57									#32
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Rich people can take care of themselves. If they couldn't they wouldn't be rich; they'd be poor.

	17-02-2003 11:58									#33
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Maybe we should have a proportional system for crimes introduced (similar to tax system).

If you steal 20$ from a poor person it's grand theft. If you steal 10 000$ from a rich person it's petty larceny...

	17-02-2003 11:58									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Rich people can take care of themselves.

...by moving 100km south to the suburbs in the US.

	17-02-2003 11:59									#35
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That's why we should have an emigration tax.

	17-02-2003 12:01									#36
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We should have a large immigration tax.

	17-02-2003 12:01									#37
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quote: Oh, BTW: the murder rate for whites in the US is also a hell of a lot higher than it is for whites up here. It may only be 2 or 3 times as much instead of the overall 4 or 5 times as much for the US, but do you mind explaining that?

If true, that's the magnifying effect. Once violent crime rises in comparison to another people, more people in the more violent culture see it as part of life (de-sensitised) and it doesn't take long for violence to increase in other groups. Of course, I believe the primary factor - the catalyst - is the drug war just as alcohol prohibition was the catalyst for the gang warfare during the 20's.

Frogger -

quote: I disagree with this point, but it's hard to see how come you're attacking him for agreeing with you.

I criticised him for the hypocrisy of blaming the white gun culture while paying at most lip service to Hollywood and the gangsta culture.

	17-02-2003 12:03									#38
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quote: Maybe we should have a proportional system for crimes introduced (similar to tax system). If you steal 20$ from a poor person it's grand theft. If you steal 10 000$ from a rich person it's petty larceny...

Hey, that's a pretty good idea.

	17-02-2003 12:05									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Hey, that's a pretty good idea.

Yeah, it sure is. That way you could invade someone's house in Hollywood and steal $100,000 and get 20 hours of community service.

	17-02-2003 12:06									#40
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Sounds good to me...

	17-02-2003 12:06									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Maybe we should have a proportional system for crimes introduced (similar to tax system). If you steal 20$ from a poor person it's grand theft. If you steal 10 000$ from a rich person it's petty larceny...

I like it too

	17-02-2003 12:06									#42
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but B&E isn't dependent on how much you take...

	17-02-2003 12:07									#43
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Theft is theft is theft. I thought socialism was all about equal treatment, but every day it seems to be just about stealing from the rich and giving to the poor under the veil of equality.

	17-02-2003 12:08									#44
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Then why does the law have different penalties depending on how much you take?

	17-02-2003 12:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger but B&E isn't dependent on how much you take...

That wasn't the point. Don't argue semantics, silly.

	17-02-2003 12:08									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Theft is theft is theft. I thought socialism was all about equal treatment, but every day it seems to be just about stealing from the rich and giving to the poor under the veil of equality.

Hi, floyd.

	17-02-2003 12:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Then why does the law have different penalties depending on how much you take?

Because the more **** you do bad, the more you should get punished. Very simple concept out West.

	17-02-2003 12:09									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Hi, floyd.

Hence the shades.

	17-02-2003 12:10									#49
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And taking 1000$ from a poor person does them more harm than taking 1000$ from a rich person does.

(Wonders when Asher will get that I'm ****ing around)

	17-02-2003 12:11									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger (Wonders when Asher will get that I'm ****ing around)

(Wonders when Frogger will get that I'm ****ing around)

	17-02-2003 12:13									#51
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UR -

quote: Of course it is. Gun ownship creates a social cost. Are you going to foot the whole thing?

As long as government is in the business of "re-distributing" wealth, everything becomes a "social" cost to be avoided. Sorry, but the social cost of guns is miniscule to poor diets, so I guess government should regulate what we eat too. Then we can make sure everyone gets the proper sleep and exercise to avoid other social costs. We'd end up with a system so authoritarian the communists would look upon us with envy, and we'd have that system while claiming to be free, heehee.

	17-02-2003 12:17									#52
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Btw, watching "Half Baked" on Comedy Central now, funnier than the Cheech and Chong movies IMO.

	17-02-2003 12:24									#53
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quote: Yeah, it sure is. That way you could invade someone's house in Hollywood and steal $100,000 and get 20 hours of community service.

Wutang!

Seriously, I think it's more important to deter theft from the poor than theft from the rich. Prison isn't about equality or fairness, as taking away one's freedom is the most authoritarian, "unfair" thing one could possibly do. The only rationale for the existence of an institution like a prison is to protect society.

	17-02-2003 12:27									#54
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I'm watching Half-Baked too. Great movie.

Hmmm.. doesn't the lead in the movie have that new show in Comedy Central?

	17-02-2003 12:31									#55
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Yup, Dave Chappelle. I love that scene where he first gets the pot from the lab scientist. The guy takes some pot out of the bag and hands it to him and Chappelle's hands are in the bag grabbing more.

	17-02-2003 12:31									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker UR - As long as government is in the business of "re-distributing" wealth, everything becomes a "social" cost to be avoided.

Why do Libertarians have such simplistic analysises?

Gun ownership is a social cost because guns do damage to the society which will require a cost to repair. For example, if you kill somebody with a gun, there's a social cost right there. Now, before you use the slippery slope argument of banning rocks, consider the statistics.

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Sorry, but the social cost of guns is miniscule to poor diets, so I guess government should regulate what we eat too. Then we can make sure everyone gets the proper sleep and exercise to avoid other social costs. We'd end up with a system so authoritarian the communists would look upon us with envy, and we'd have that system while claiming to be free, heehee.

Why did I have a sneaky suspicion that you will again resort to the slippery slope?

You can stop eating a poor diet, but you can't stop a bullet. In other words, a person has control over his own diet, but not on how other people use guns. That's why we need to control guns.

	17-02-2003 12:39									#57
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I'm not sure I agree that blacks are shown as bad guys that much in films.

Most film industries are scared to cast black people as bad guys. Thusly most bad guys are white actors.

Remember when Wesley Snipes was the bad guy in demolition man? Believe it or not some people were upset at that.

So I can't agree that violence in movies affects black crime rates.

	17-02-2003 12:45									#58
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UR -

quote: Why do Libertarians have such simplistic analysises?

You established a simple standard with your argument that guns are our business - the social cost. Did your argument become simplistic only after I explained why it's a blueprint for totalitariansim?

quote: Gun ownership is a social cost because guns do damage to the society which will require a cost to repair.

And that's true for all sorts of behaviors, including diet.

quote: For example, if you kill somebody with a gun, there's a social cost right there. Now, before you use the slippery slope argument of banning rocks, consider the statistics.

Sure, compare the statistics. How many people die every year from tobacco, alcohol, and diabetes induced by poor diets? So, how many die from gunshot wounds after subtracting the people who would die from other means if guns were banned?

quote: Why did I have a sneaky suspicion that you will again resort to the slippery slope?

What slippery slope? Are you suggesting we apply your standard inconsistently only to those social costs you want addressed?

quote: You can stop eating a poor diet, but you can't stop a bullet. In other words, a person has control over his own diet, but not on how other people use guns. That's why we need to control guns.

But don't we end up paying the "social costs" of people with poor diets? It seems you're not really concerned with social costs, only gun violence. Therefore it is inconsistent to "control" guns because of social costs while ignoring all the other social costs.

Btw, Ramo, ain't Rachel True HOT? She's the chick Chappelle is dating in the movie.

	17-02-2003 12:54									#59
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Dissident - You're right, it seems the bad guys are often white business people nowadays. But how many movies depict middle or upper class blacks as role models like the Bill Cosby Show? And compare that paucity of positive role models with movies depicting the black gangsta culture. The music industry has picked up the slack if there is any...