17-02-2003 13:06									#1
	***YO ADRIAN***The Berlin Airlift Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

During the Berlin airlift the US and its allies flew tons of supplies into Berlin in order to prevent the city and its citizens from giving in to the Soviets, and saving over 2 million Germans from communism.

The Soviets had declared that the four power partition of the city was disolved and that the west had no more right to occupy the city. They fully expected that they could starve the citizens and thereby force the allies out.

I don't recall my history well enough to say how many planes were lost, maybe a dozen? Mostly through fatigue, but also because no airport had ever handled as many planes as Berlin airport (Templehof?) did during the effort. With the loss of the planes were the loss of crews, people died so that Berlin could live.

Brave, resolved people who valued freedom...

Alot of good folks died during the cold war. When I was stationed in Germany a guy from the next barracks got crushed up against a building by a tank. I didn't know him particularly well, just looked like a regular guy.

We served the cause of freedom, and because we were there through the bad times, a better day came when East Germany joined the West. I'm glad these people could leave behind the hardships of an oppressive government.

I hope that our efforts in Iraq will free even more.

	17-02-2003 13:08									#2
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was there a point to this thread

Yes the Berlin airlift was an amazing operation.

	17-02-2003 16:57									#3
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Situation has changed a lil since then.

BTW: No Pilots died.

	17-02-2003 17:50									#5
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The war vet speaks:

quote: Alot of good folks died during the cold war. When I was stationed in Germany a guy from the next barracks got crushed up against a building by a tank. I didn't know him particularly well, just looked like a regular guy.

Thanks for the comic relief.

American history is long and varied enough that you'll find exactly what you're looking for. In other words, pretty much the same as everybody else.

So you'll find instances of Americans selflessly standing up for freedom. You'll also find things like, oh, US support for Central American death-squad governments in the 1980s. But the Good Citizen will know to ignore stuff like that since it destroys his argument.

	17-02-2003 18:00									#6
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Since the West German Army had several hundreads of thousands of men in the front lines, making the bulk of of the divisions in the Central front, I am sure plenty of germans died in similar incidents defending their own country, and OURS, during the Cold War: and the German were nice enough allies, so that even when huge armies (some of them made of their own countrymen) were poised to assault them, never created their own independent nuclear force.

America did not defend Europe simply out of selflessness. America defended Europe, both in WW2 and the Cold War because if we hadn't, we would surely not be the superpower we are today. So give me a f*cking break.

Last edited by GePap on 17-02-2003 at 19:12

	17-02-2003 18:38									#7
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Lancer :
I think you post this thread so that 'Poly Germans feel thankful towards the US and back your war in Iraq now. Am I wrong ?

	17-02-2003 18:41									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Lancer : I think you post this thread so that 'Poly Germans feel thankful towards the US and back your war in Iraq now. Am I wrong ?

You are right as mostly, Spiff. That's so obvious, that I would never respond to his troll.

	17-02-2003 19:10									#9
	Re: ***YO ADRIAN***The Berlin Airlift Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Lancer I hope that our efforts in Iraq will free even more.

Yeah, sure. Your last effort gave ticket to heavens to millions of Iraqis people. Beeing killed by American bomb or starved to death, because of irrigation system destroyed by American bomb, it's true salvation for horribly opressed Iraqis people and great effort to make the World a better and more free place.
Keep up the great work.

	17-02-2003 19:59									#10
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Serb -- Do I understand you right? You're ticked at the U.S. because ten years ago, the U.N. was forced by Saddam's aggression against Kuwait to intervene militarily and drive him out?

And millions of civilians killed by American bombs?? What fiction have you been reading? We had much better targets to aim our weapons at than civilians and irregation systems.

	17-02-2003 20:17									#11
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Serb would like to blame EVERY death that has occured in Iraq since Saddam invaded Kuwait on the Americans.

It doesn't matter whether the person was actually killed through any direct action of America, or if they died of old age or some other disease... The USA is resposible for every last one of them...

	17-02-2003 21:19									#12
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Well, millions is an exaggeration. About 150 000 as a direct effect of allied bombing, and just under a million from the infrastructure bombing and sanctions.

And the US certainly did bomb civilians and irrigation, what kind of lies are you prepared to randomly believe?

	17-02-2003 21:25									#13
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To think that the US does anything out of the goodness of its heart is wrong. There's always an agenda... always something in it for them. And I think that the Germans should be thankful to the US servicemen and women that helped them. But not to the American puds on these boards that think that the rest of the world should worship them and fall in line.

	17-02-2003 21:28									#14
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Yeah, lets be honest for a sec. Americans are no angels, nor is Saddam, nor was the Soviets. It's a little adolescent to try build a link between the Berlin Airlift and whats going on today in Iraq

	17-02-2003 21:32									#15
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Sava,

You find the worst Avatars.

The choice to handle Iraq this way since desert storm was horrible, and Bush senior doesn't get enough credit for that. The thing is that only military presure on Saddam will make him cooperate as much as he is. If those troops weren't over there right now he would tell all of us to go **** ourselves. Critisize gun boat diplomacy all you want, but in this case it's the only thing, besides war, that will work.

	17-02-2003 21:35									#16
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quote: Sava, You find the worst Avatars.

There, I changed it to Timmy!... if you don't like TImmy, then there's something wrong with you.

	17-02-2003 21:38									#17
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Lancer, what does the Berlin Airlift have anything to do with *freedom*? It was done to screw the Soviets.

	17-02-2003 21:53									#18
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I'm East German so I couldn't give a damn about the West Berlin airlift!

Down with the US!

	17-02-2003 22:10									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Lancer, what does the Berlin Airlift have anything to do with *freedom*?

It kept 2 million West Berliners free and provided a haven of freedom for so many East Germans that a friggin' wall had to be built to keep them all from leaving.

	17-02-2003 22:14									#20
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Since the West German Army had several hundreads of thousands of men in the front lines, making the bulk of of the divisions in the Central front, I am sure plenty of germans died in similar incidents defending their own country, and OURS, during the Cold War: and the German were nice enough allies, so that even when huge armies (some of them made of their own countrymen) were poised to assault them, never created their own independent nuclear force.

America did not defend Europe simply out of selflessness. America defended Europe, both in WW2 and the Cold War because if we hadn't, we would surely not be the superpower we are today. So give me a f*cking break.

Double Post. And proud of it.

	17-02-2003 22:23									#21
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Getting a feel for the change in death rate amoung Iraqi's should be pretty simple. Just see what the death rate per million people was in 1989 and then compare it to the rate per million people today. Of course finding numbers which haven't been fabrocated as propoganda might be difficult.

	17-02-2003 22:24									#22
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Sava,

timmy is much better.

	17-02-2003 22:28									#23
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Gepap,

Are you saying the American people who supported US involvement in WWII and the Cold War did so just to make us a superpower? I don't think so. We made a choice to defend the world from the Nazi's and Soviets, we just became a superpower as a result.

	17-02-2003 22:56									#24
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Thirty one Americans lost their lives during the Berlin Airlift.

http://www.usafe.af.mil/berlin/memorial.htm

	17-02-2003 23:13									#25
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I live in Berlin and as some of you know I lived in both parts of Berlin before the fall of the Berlin wall. very soon I heard about the events of 1948/49 and I think this is something we should be thankful about.
one of Berlin´s longest roads is named after Gerneral Lucius D. Clay, who led the Berlin Airlift between June 1948 and July 1949.

God bless you General Clay.

	18-02-2003 00:31									#26
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oedo, amen.

The US is a country that will go right to the brink in support of its allies, and the thirty one that died gave their whole universe for the people of Berlin.

It's good to know that there are folks like yourself oedo, who take the time to remember. Also that there is a street in Berlin named for the American who led the effort to save the great German city.

	18-02-2003 01:21									#27
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So that is what Clayallee in Zehlendorf is all about, just rode along that street the other day and wondered who it was named after

	18-02-2003 02:04									#28
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You know, Lancer, there are plenty of "Pdt. Wilson street"s and "Franklin Roosevelt avenue"s in France too. Many more than Stalin streets We do remember when the Americans helped us. We're just not making a permanent obsession about it.

	18-02-2003 06:19									#29
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Spiffor, I've made a simple thread here to remember the Berlin Airlift and those who gave their lives in the effort to preserve the freedom of over 2 million Germans. Yet many have used the thread to further attack the United States? Is it because of my simple statement of hope for freedom for the Iraqi people? Don't you want freedom for the Iraqi people?

Why the attacks in this thread dedicated to a heroic effort to save fellow europeans? The attacks are evidence of the guilt people feel at letting their unreasoning hatred of the US overcome their sense of what's right.

You are French, and your nation is using Iraq as a bargaining chip in european politics. Had you stood shoulder to shoulder with the US then maybe Saddam would have seen the hopelessness of the situation and gone to Libya, or maybe his generals would have shot him to save their own skins. This might yet happen, but it might not, because of what France has done and continues to do. That could cost American troops their lives if they have to go house to house and street to street in Baghdad.

Instead you have marginalized yourselves in the EU and NATO, and alot of Americans now hate the French for what they have done. Boycotts are being organized, French products thrown in the garbage, etc. All over getting rid of a two bit mass murdering dictator.

Good job...

Folks, remember the Americans of the Berlin airlift! Their grandsons are going into Baghdad, very soon.

	18-02-2003 06:23									#30
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STOP THE AMERICANS FROM MASSACRING 500.000 PEOPLE FOR OIL!