18-02-2003 21:24									#31
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I agree with BFM. The ammendment, as it is looking now, does include the possibility for a minister to resign. It is an elegant combination of a noCon vote and a resignment.
IMHO there's no need for a separate article for resigning procedures.

	19-02-2003 00:59									#32
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Thank you for your comments. If Consuls are part of the senate (I thought they were not a member of the senate like the ministers in the C3DG), I agree that a seperate clause is not needed.

Tiberius have yoy thought about the 'dual voting' I suggested above:

quote: If you have read this long proposal well, you might have noted the integration of the two elections in one. This spares us at least 36 hours between the removal of one official and the replacement of this official with the winning candidate. This can also be fitted in the amendment of the CoC vote. Perhaps something to think about?

quote: f. After the first 36 hours, but within 48 hours, the Consul must organize a vote - this is called the 'Replacement Proposal for Resigning'. This vote must contain three options: the options to agree or disagree with the resigning of the Consul and the option to choose any candidate from the list to replace the current Consul.

This spares us a lot of time: we need to vote only once, which makes at least 36 hours less long. This is better for the continuency (or something like that).

Aidun

	19-02-2003 02:01									#33
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I’m sorry, but I don’t like the "early poll-closing" clause. In RL, I would be furious to be told, "Oh, sorry, we closed early because we’ve got enough votes already. What we are saying by this is that the only good votes are those who happen to be hanging around here all the time and so can vote at the drop of a hat, but people who are check once a day or more don’t count. Completely unfair!

If we want a short time because we fear the vote will take too long for the game, then be fair about it and set a short time, and then everyone will know they have to check often and vote quickly. Or if we fear the game will be without Consuls while we have the vote, then say that the Consul is not removed until after the vote is counted. And if he is confirmed, then it doesn’t matter anyway. And anyone who would use his consular powers to get us in trouble just because he is going through a CoC is someone who should be removed anyway.

	19-02-2003 02:14									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Aidun Tiberius have youy thought about the 'dual voting' I suggested above: Aidun

Why do we need two votes? If a voter disagrees with the CoC and wants to keep the Consul in office then he will vote for the Consul (ranking 1 Consul 2 Candidate B 3 Candidate D 4 Candidate A etc.) If a voter agrees with the CoC and does not want to keep the Consul in office, then he will vote for someone else. (ranking 1 Candidate D 2 Candidate A 3 Consul etc.) The very fact of voting for someone else implies that that voter wants to change the Consul.

	19-02-2003 02:42									#35
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Good points, Pikesfan. I'll think about the numbers. 3 days for a poll and one RL week for immunity seem reasonable.

	19-02-2003 03:43									#36
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Good points, Pikesfan. I'll think about the numbers. 3 days for a poll and one RL week for immunity seem reasonable.

hi ,

seems okay , .... and we should get rid of that "%" , .....

that should do it more or the less , .....

have a nice day

	19-02-2003 04:07									#37
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I think panag got a good point here...
However I strongly support the outline of this amendment.


I also agree with vondracks proposal of changing to 'elected officials'. It is near the same I said during the inital constitution, when nobody would listen!
Ok, good thing someone really listened to me, for a change... I see BFM did some great work here.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 19-02-2003 at 04:18

	19-02-2003 04:29									#38
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sorry dp..

	19-02-2003 04:32									#39
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Sorry Aidun, your posts are so clearly written that they can be easily criticized

	19-02-2003 04:47									#40
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Why do we need two votes? If a voter disagrees with the CoC and wants to keep the Consul in office then he will vote for the Consul (ranking 1 Consul 2 Candidate B 3 Candidate D 4 Candidate A etc.) If a voter agrees with the CoC and does not want to keep the Consul in office, then he will vote for someone else. (ranking 1 Candidate D 2 Candidate A 3 Consul etc.) The very fact of voting for someone else implies that that voter wants to change the Consul.

Eh well eh yes. Pikesfan. I'm a bit confused aparently. I'm doing too many things at the same time, sorry. Consider it not mentioned at all.

Good point you have about the closing of the polls before evrybody has had the chance to vote. That is more a third world - like scenario. Sorry if I'm insulting members who live in a third world country, but in some third world countries it happens like that.

Aidun

	19-02-2003 05:00									#41
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We also need some other amendments soon...
The single-minister-as-appointer-issue should be reconsidered.
(how that one could pass the ratification is a mystery to me)
When we gotta appoint diplomats and stuff, the Consuls should be involved in the decision.


Actually, elections for all officials would be preferrable, but perhaps time consuming. Ok, just not let one single person appoint another person. It's unheard of in a team game.

	19-02-2003 11:41									#42
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OK then, no percentages. Make the polls last a fixed period; 3 days (72 hours) should be fine for everybody.

Otherwise the ammendment is looking good

	19-02-2003 21:47									#43
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat We also need some other amendments soon... The single-minister-as-appointer-issue should be reconsidered. (how that one could pass the ratification is a mystery to me)

What do you mean?

	20-02-2003 05:15									#44
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Well, first I meant we could elect a 'board of appointers' since we were not going to elect each ministers, diplomat, governor, etc. I realize this would be a bit too much work for us, so IMO we need
some kind of a compromise, to ensure a good team spirit and not waste to much time on subtilities.

AFAIK a minister is not elected, and thus he should not be in position to appoint anyone by himself. If this is gonna be fair teamwork the jobs must be handed out by more than one person. Now it is supposed to be one single person, who is not even represented by the team. This is bureaucracy on the worst. However, if there is only one applicant for the job, no problem.

In the case of many applicants the Consuls should be deciding since they are the only one representing us. The actual minister can of course suggest someone if he likes to. I see no problem with such a fair and square treatment of the teammates. It should have been the law!