22-05-2003 23:14									#121
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Turn 52 > J.

	23-05-2003 03:45									#122
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Kralj you are not playing this game, disreguard the turn sent J. Eric has the turn comming for you.

	23-05-2003 03:47									#123
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AeroPrinz Turn 52 to Mongols goes to Ericmusser1112@yahoo.com who is now the rightful player of the Mongols as per the assumed Pbem rules.

Thanks

	23-05-2003 14:01									#124
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Kralj you are not playing this game, disreguard the turn sent J. Eric has the turn comming for you.

I sent the turn before I read the thread . So turn 52 to Milamber.

	23-05-2003 16:20									#125
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Kralj you are not playing this game, disreguard the turn sent J.

Unfortunately you are very wrong here. I am playing this game!!!

It's beyond your power to decide opposite. Only PLAYERS CAN!

Aeroprinz, just keep on sending turns to me.

	23-05-2003 16:52									#126
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No problem j. make sure you inform Milamber of which turn to play.

	23-05-2003 17:14									#127
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quote: Unfortunately you are very wrong here. I am playing this game!!!

Unfortunately no.

quote: It's beyond your power to decide opposite. Only PLAYERS CAN!

You keep saying this yet I can find no referance to this in the rules. Maybe you could point out where it says this?

What was agreed though and complied with was a posting in this thread. The end result was your replacement. This is an assumed rule as it is not in the rules.

quote: Aeroprinz, just keep on sending turns to me.

Rules, maybe you should read them more carefully. Everything you have done so far and continue to do is against the rules as we know them.

Continued breaking of the rules in PBEM is grounds for replacement.

	24-05-2003 02:21									#128
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turn 53 to sam and blackice

	24-05-2003 08:52									#129
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turn to david, though i sense possible trouble ahead :/

	24-05-2003 20:47									#130
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Turn 53 to Milamber

	25-05-2003 00:58									#131
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turn 54 to sam and blackice

	25-05-2003 05:00									#132
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turn away

	26-05-2003 13:06									#133
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I got the messege from Kralj Matjaz that is not happy with the current situation.
And I wish to understand what other players think about his replacement?

	26-05-2003 16:05									#134
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AeroPrinz that has been done, and concluded as per the rules (assumed as they are.)

I think we have all had enough of the Kralj situation don't you? I mean the players were asked for thier input, no one cared. Now he's unhappy about that and wants to do it again through you? What if it is the same result? We keep doing it until he gets the response he wants?

Give it a break would ya, the rules assumed as they are were complied with he has been replaced. Kralj's continued disruption of a game and not complying with the rules he demands everyone else follow is the main reason for his replacement. He is still doing it...

I think everyone just wants to get on with the game now and have some fun, at least that's the picture I get. I know I have sure had enough of the whinning, anyone else?

Last edited by blackice on 26-05-2003 at 18:01

	26-05-2003 21:45									#135
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If only one player vote for my removal from game I'll walk away.

And ones again there is NO rule to back up your decision. Only players can expel another player and not moderator!

	27-05-2003 07:16									#136
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quote: Unfortunately no. It's beyond your power to decide opposite. Only PLAYERS CAN! You keep saying this yet I can find no referance to this in the rules. Maybe you could point out where it says this? What was agreed though and complied with was a posting in this thread. The end result was your replacement. This is an assumed rule as it is not in the rules.

Here Kralj I have attached the rules, read them, then point out where it says anything you keep harping about. But most important read them...

To add to this: Posted without permission but assumed none the less for as long as,

quote: Only players can expel another player and not moderator!

quote: Keygen: Pete, if you get no response from the players then you are free to act as you feel like. Nobody will be able to say anything to you afterwords...

No one responded, people Kralj, just want to play a fun game without all the B.S. The game stopped it is the moderators job to get it going, I did. Now you continue to try and stop and or disrupt the game for the rest of the players and the moderator, give us a break would you?

You nexted a player against the rules that's for starters that to me and others is cheating and I take that seriously, you?

We have read your moderator post's in games you moderate. You would never have allowed that in a game you moderate so why should we here? That is in the rules read them, you know this.

Your and my points are well noted and hopefully soon the rules will incorprate all of the concerns and issue's that have been brought to light here.

I for one am pushing for these changes to be made, you?

In the mean time the rules assumed as they are, have been followed, to a tee. Now you want to change them again? I see no where in the rules that is says we keep voting until the player it effects is happy with the out come. I.E. it is what they want... The rules assumed have been applied end of story.

I am starting another game feel free to join it, but please read the rules first. I know I have repeated this I also know you know them. You know you were wrong and continue to be so. You know the assumed rules were applied as per your request. Stop already... You got what you wanted, it was just not what you desired.

How many times do we have to go over this, give the players and moderator here a break for pete's sake.

We are here to have some fun, it is a game with rules follow them and have fun. Simple right?

Game on.

	27-05-2003 20:16									#137
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Read word from game starter on end of post again!

Keygen:

Before I begin I should clarify that without the PBEM Rules 2.0 what I express below is my personal opinion that might find you or the rest players of Crossfire in some or all points opposite and does not in any case comprise a decission that is to be followed constrainedly.
My viewpoint is depended on your emails sent to me and the posts in the thread - unfortunatelly without Pete's most posts - so if I miss something and because of that I misjudge someone my appologies.

Regarding the "nexting" issue I find both sides partially wrong.
Pete should had paid more attention and do the nexting if needed within rational time and not let the game on hold for that long time.
According to the PBEM Rule 2.0 a moderator that does not retain a steady flow of the game and leave it on hold for long can be bypassed and the players can next the one that haven't played his turn.
On the other hand a player should email the moderator for the situation as well as the other players and if receives no response from the moderator in a rational time then proceed to the nexting.

Regarding the re-sent issue I find no reason at all why should lead a moderator to boot a player from a game even if several reasons had been given in the past for that.

I conclude that you are both biased to each other and that generates the problems that we are facing currently and not the actions themselves.

A moderator should not kick off a player on his own but should always ask the rest players - exept the offender - whether he should be replaced and depending on the answers act accordingly.

	27-05-2003 20:26									#138
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Paragraph from rules:

E: Penalty

The penalty for those that break the rules varies from simple reprehension to permanent ban from the game. It is the responsibility of the moderator to warn the transgressor. If the offence is serious the moderator should call a council formed by the rest participants - known as the war council - to decide for his permanent ban and replacement. The final decision will be drawn by the majority of the votes of the participants.
The offender and the moderator do not vote.

	27-05-2003 23:44									#139
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turn 55 to sam and blackice

	28-05-2003 04:34									#140
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What's your point Kralj do you want me to ask others for your permantent banning?

	28-05-2003 11:12									#141
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Just follow the rules you are referring.

	28-05-2003 16:40									#142
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I did, I have, I am, even the assumed ones.

I read the player's away message and was prepared to wait. The rules state 24 hours then extended to 48 if the player has a valid reason, he did. I think this is a game for fun so for me to have the patience to wait the final day for his return was no problem.

My error here was assuming all the players felt the same way. Like what was wrong waiting one more day for the player to return? I sincerely doubt anyone would have voted to next the player on the day of his return as you did. What do you think?

I have read a lot of threads here, played with a lot of people here and moderated a lot of games here. With very few exceptions most all of this community will wait for a player who is having difficulty. That said less than 1% of this community will not. I can count those players on one hand with two fingers...

If a player such as yourself does not want to wait for a player who is having problems. Just email the moderator as per the rules. As I always do, I will post in the thread for a player vote on the situation, as per the assumed rules. Most moderators do including yourself as a moderator and a player in some games, sometimes.

If they or a majority do not want to wait I will play that players turn to the best of my ability. ( Nexted by the moderator rule. )

Keygen when he wrote that opinion, was unaware of those facts as I for one removed the flame threads as per the rules. You?

To resolve the situation I applied the assumed rules and it was posted here. No one responded I then applied the assumed rules and you were replaced. All this at your request and Keygen's help.

You nexted a player against the rules, applied and assumed. Continued disruption of the game, which you are still doing. You continued to try and moderate a game you play in, which is against the rules applied and assumed. You played a turn you knew to be wrong which is against the rules applied and assumed.

I could go on but for now I think you get the point. In fact I am sure you knew all along, what you were doing was wrong right?

All of these things you did you knew from the onset were against the rules. The proof for that is in every game you moderate or play in. Reading over your post's in those games shows very clearly you know the rules, apply the rules and follow the rules, with a lot of exceptions like this game and one other.

In those games and others you mock the rules mock the moderators mock the players next players on a whim with no player input or moderators. In one game nine times in a few months if I counted right. Finally you disrupt the games to suit your needs. I for one put an end to that for myself and the players in this game by applying the rules.

That brings me back to a statement you made earlier, "the game is about the players not you" After reading volumes I would say that is something you need to work on.

So I still do not get your point?

So as I said, another game is starting you are welcome to join that one if you wish.

This game is now ongoing, I am sure the players would like thier thread back. As per the rules should you have anything more to say and if I respond to it, it will be done by emails through a third party like Keygen.

Continued Hijacking of this game thread will no longer be done. The rules assumed and applied were followed. You are no longer in this game, now it is called thread jacking, which is against the rules here and apoloyton rules. I for one will follow those rules you?

I am sure the players would agree with that also?
The thread and the game after all is thiers, right?

Game On.

Regards

Black

Last edited by blackice on 28-05-2003 at 17:04

	28-05-2003 18:13									#143
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Just follow the rules:


E: Penalty

The penalty for those that break the rules varies from simple reprehension to permanent ban from the game. It is the responsibility of the moderator to warn the transgressor. If the offence is serious the moderator should call a council formed by the rest participants - known as the war council - to decide for his permanent ban and replacement.
The final decision will be drawn by the majority of the votes of the participants. The offender and the moderator do not vote.

Why don't you let players to decide as per rules?

	29-05-2003 00:55									#144
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For the last time they did already, the rules were complied with, sorry it was not to your liking. Unless of course you want me to ask the war council for your permantant banning from these games all together I suggest you end this A.S.A.P.

I can not get over how you try to shove rules at people you did not and do not follow.

You are thread jacking now do you understand?

Last time I respond to you in this thread if you continue to thread jack I will bring it the attention of Solver hall...

Regards

Black

Last edited by blackice on 29-05-2003 at 01:03

	29-05-2003 01:10									#145
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Yes, I want you to ask war council for their decision.

Simply follow the rules.

	29-05-2003 01:38									#146
	Tired of ads?

What part of "they were" do you not get?

But as you wish I will ask them to ban you permanently from these games altogether.

As far as this game goes they were asked you are gone, let me repeat this for the 5th time and final time.

THEY WERE ASKED AND YOU ARE GONE.

Did you get it that time?

Now Kralj instead of asking people to follow rules you ignore, learn them and follow them to avoid this in future games.

Stop thread jacking for instance. Which is an Apolyton rule.

This is the Crossfire thread where the players and moderators for this game post. You are neither, last time stop thread jacking.

Regards

Black

	29-05-2003 01:42									#147
	Tired of ads?

PLAYERS WERE NEWER ASKED AND I'M NOT GONE!

FOLLOW THE RULES!!!!!! ASK PLAYERS!!

	29-05-2003 01:45									#148
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blackice 12-05-2003 07:51

quote: So players lets hear from you, do you want a player playing that needs constant reminders to play? Or a player that just play's thier turn as they agreed to do showing some interest, not interest after they were replaced but before... What about kralj do you want a player who has a history of nexting players (look throught the threads, this is not an isolated situation) dispite the fact it goes against the rules and the game has a moderator, and has contributed to many game slow downs. Or a player who plays by the rules without a personal agenda. Let's hear it.

They were... It is now my opinion and others that you are here simply to disrupt this game and thread jack...

Solver was notified enough said.

	29-05-2003 02:58									#149
	Put an end to popups!

Not much to say... please go read your PMs Kralj.

	29-05-2003 10:47									#150
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Personally I do not have anything against Matjaz, I can understand problems with game delays.
I wrote to players that we spent a lof of our lifes to play this games and the reason for player removal should be real HUGE!
For example, when player is not doing his turns and not responding in forum and e-mail for long time ...
We hear a lot from Matjaz, so I think he is VERY interested in this game...

I do not think that Matjaz have to quit, but I wish to hear what other players thinking.